[Mark C]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6161

In case people don't think that faking high performance cars on Ebay is a problem heres another example of a fake Z. Price went from 20,100 to 35,100 while I was typing this. There is at least 1 fake Z (not a clone but an outright forgery) on Ebay at any given time. Who knows how many other model cars are being faked. Oh well add another tag to the image file.


For the future heres the numbers after the image dissapears from Ebay

12437 NOR 228030
TR 713 76 76
01C X33

Nicely done, but loaded with incorrect and repro parts. I like this qoute from the ad:

"We did not buy this car new, I cannot guarantee that is has the right bolts to hold the starter on, but this is one thing that I WILL guarantee, that this is one of the newest 1969 Rally Sport Z28s in the country, down to the brand new seat belts."

Yeah, it can't be any older than a couple of weeks old.

[zx401]

Is the trim tag what makes you think it is a fake? I am not too knowledgeable about trim tags, but am a bit aware of Stan's and I cannot see him building a clone. Car has a lot of new parts true, and would be an issue for a purist, but there are a lot of people who would like all those new things. I have a friend who does some restoration work and he likes to replace all those parts for folks, because then he keeps all the original stuff for his own restorations. What parts do you see that are incorrect, other than it being obvious that they are new? I am not trying to pick a fight, I just wondered, as I looked at the photos and I do not see anything other than a lot of reproduction parts, with wrong finishes, etc.

Ed

[automanZ]

My favorite part is "on the side of the block by the oil filter, there is some numbers there but you would have to have a magnifying glass to read them". If I was selling this car I'd have that magnifing glass out, the digital camera on macro or anything else I could do to get top dollar for the car.
I don't know much about spotting fake trim tags but as soon as I saw this one I said it just looks like a brand new tag. I knew there would be a post here about it and sure enough...

[Mark C]

The engine and transmission are dated in December of 68 which is fairly close to the build date, but the rear axle is dated May of 69. All of the underbody fuel and brake lines have been replaced so I can't use those as indication one way or the other. the gauges and tach have been added since theres no clock in the dash cluster. Someone definately spent alot of money restoring, or building this car but when it has a fake tag on it the whole thing is called into question. Maybe it was originally a Z28 and someone wanted it to be yellow instead of some other color, or maybe it was an X77 and someone wanted an RS. Maybe it was originally an X44 base V8 coupe. You fool with the tag and it's like painting a Velvet Elvis picture over the Mona Lisa. someones wrecked the value of this car from an investment point of view. It's still a nice looking car, but nice looking cars don't command the prices people try to get by slapping fake tags on the cars. An X44 in this condition wouldn't clear the mid 20's. This things been up for about 6 hours and is in the mid 30's and the reserve is higher.

Fake tag means fake Z to me no matter why it was done, even if the tag was lost. Don't know who put the tag on there and I didn't say anything about the seller, just called the tag a fake. Maybe he bought it that way, maybe he put the tag on there, don't know, don't care. If anyone here wants to spend upwards of 35K for a car with a fake cowl tag and no paperwork feel free.

[zx401]

I agree the tag looks new, but if I were in the restoration business I would use a solvent to remove the paint from the tag and the metal would then be pristine as in the photo. It is when you blast, sand, scrub, wire brush, etc. that you would effect the metal of the tag, making it look old and taking the cripness off the letters. Again, I am not saying it is real, as I do not know, nor have the experience some of you do, but I dont think it is that simple. If a letter is shaped wrong, to big, too small, too fat, etc. I might buy into that, but you still need a bit of evidence to that fact. Do we know for sure that all tags were stamped on only one machine? Seems like a big risk. If it broke would that not shut the line down till repaired? Same way with gang stamps. I don't know, but again seems odd to me that there would only be one. Too much opportunity for failure with out a back-up. This could also cause some characters to differ as with a typewriter no two would be the same

Ed.

[olympic69]

I like the car personally, but the $$$ it will take to get this car is way out of my league. I am glad I got mine in 1984! I am going to stay out of the authenticity issue.

I was wondering though- where is the clock? Is a missing clock worth 3 points in the "997" point assesment? Would a clock give it 1000 pts?

I never have heard of a perfect 1000 pt car, so I was just wondering if this one was close.

Cheers-

Rob

[BonzoHansen]

ARE YOU LOOKING FOR A TRAILER QUEEN? WELL LOOK NO FURTHER.

[Jonesy]

The trim tag is 100% fake and there is a way of telling and this one is VERY obvious.
That, to me, wrecks the whole value of the car.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Jonesy

The trim tag is 100% fake and there is a way of telling and this one is VERY obvious.
That, to me, wrecks the whole value of the car.

What is obvious? Too clean? I'm trying to learn.

[bilodeaulynn]

When Mark and/or Kurt say one is a fake, I believe them. After copying this pic onto my computer, printing it out 8X10 and comparing it an 8x10 pic of my trim tag (which I know is original, as I have owned the car since 1976 - before anyone made fake tags) I am 99% certain I figured out what is wrong.

However, and I don't want to come off as being elitist, because I am really not a trim tag expert, but my OPINION is that we NOT post openly on the board all the incorrect details of the fake tags. It will only give the fakers more info which they will then misuse to make better fake tags.

Trust me, it is not just that it looks new. Mine looks just as new.

JMHO

Thanks to Mark C. and Kurt S. and all the guys on this site and on CRG for exposing these.

Don't know the guy's name, but one of the trim tag fakers who "guarantees" it to be 100% correct actually, physically got punched out at one of the big Vette shows by a dissatisfied customer whose car was docked points when the judges determined it to be fake. Worst part is, the only reason for the fake tag on that Vette was a color change. Still, like Mark says, once the tag is faked, what can you trust about the car?

Lynn Bilodeau

[zx401]

I don't know if I am seeing the right thing, but I just compared it to my 03D X33 and I do see some differences. I suppose it is not kosher to tell what you think you see.

Ed

[bilodeaulynn]

Obviously I agree.

[RamAirDave]

this tag is pretty obvious, but like all other posts on this issue, its kind of a hush hush deal. any info given here is just as available to the frauds.

it has nothing to do with the "cleanliness. it just takes research and studying both real and fake tags. Ive been studying for about 6 months, and have found quite a few idiosyncracies (sp?) in tags. I'm not an expert, but my evaluations usually line out with the ones given here.

dave

[Vintage 68]

Originally Posted by RamAirDave

... and have found quite a few idiosyncracies (sp?) in tags.

dave

Yeah - what he said...

John

[al8apexer]

here are a few items that I spotted that appear wrong from the poor, vague pics:

Impala woodgrain steering wheel center

68 Camaro woodgrain shifter plate

CHEEEEP repro carpets and seat covers (I'd rather have tatered orig than that junk)

(at least they got the 4 leaf springs right)