[69camaro638]

After searching in the exhaust section I had a question about the Pypes mandrel bent (or any other similar mandrel bent) exhaust system. I want to install the system myself at home on my new 68 Camaro RS (small block). I have a lift but no welder (or welding skills). Can this (or any other similar system) be installed properly without welding? There is no problem if I have to cut off some sections of pipe to adjust for a proper fit, but will it seal/fit properly just using whatever type of clamps (band or other) and hangers that come with the kit? I was thinking of the 2.5" Pypes system w/Borla mufflers.

Any help in this area would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Marty

[CFunK]

Clamp it up and then take it to a local muffler shop and have it welded.

[Brentmc]

This is a long post describing my thus-far painful attempt at installing pipes on my 68. Let me caveat this post by saying that I hear great things about the quality of Pypes systems and their customer service. Once I have resolved the issues I am experiencing, I may have great things to say as well. Here is my story...

After much research I bought and attempted to install the Pypes 2.5" system with X-pipe on my 1968 Camaro (stock suspension and a "headers back" system).

Knowing that there is enough room for up to 19" mufflers tucked up into the rear floorboard area, I bought 14" Turbo Flow mufflers in order to have plenty of room for adjustments and to make sure I could do the install myself.

On the install day, I put my car on a lift at 12:00 noon. I had three fellow motor heads there to assist me in what was to be an "easy" install.

I cut off the old system and installed my new headers. The headers went on easily and fit perfectly (thanks, Dynomax). This took two hours.

Working from the back of the car to the front (as directed by Pypes) I tried to install the exhaust system.

The tailpipes proved to be too tall and too long--they hit the underbody of the car when installed (=too tall) and pushed the 14" muffler too far forward (=too long). I could not cut the tailpipe any shorter in order to move the muffler back enough to clear the floorboards as I would have had to cut the tailpipe right where it angled up.

After several attempts at changing the geometry of the pipes by twisting and turning them into different positions and then trying to switch sides (to make sure we had not mixed up parts (we hadn't)) we could still not get them to fit.

After 4.5 hours of trying (6:30 PM) we gave up. I could not get the tailpipes to fit over the rear axle and the mufflers to fit under the floorboard. I called over another car guy and had him give it a try. He failed too. The pipe was too "tall" and hit the underbody of the car. The mufflers were pushed too far forward.

Running out of time (it was now 7:30 pm--I had to give up the lift at 8:30 pm) I just bolted up the X-pipe and the mufflers and went home.

The next day I spent two more hours in my garage trying to get the tailpipes to fit. Still no luck.

My next move was to take them to my local custom exhaust shop. This shop is huge and occupies three large buildings. They are focused on performance vehicles and work on plenty of 1960's muscle. I did not tell them I was having problems--I just asked them to install the tailpipes.

Their exhaust guy is billed as the "Picasso of Pipes" and has been doing exhaust work for 25+ years. With an estimate of $100 to hang the tailpipes (money I did NOT plan to spend!!) I left the car and told them to do the work. The next morning they called to say that the tailpipes would not fit. They were too tall and too long.

They offered to rebend and cut them to make them fit. I said NO way. Unless they could do mandrel bends, I was not interested.

I spent much time over the next 3 days on the phone with the owner of Pypes. He confirmed that I had the right part numbers and the correct installation steps. I also sent him pictures of the install. He was *sympathetic* and asked for more pictures, different angles, etc. He commented that he gets many calls from shops who don't follow the directions and can't do the install. He believed that I was in the same boat and that we (all eight of us) just couldn't get it right and do an *easy* install.

At this point, my only options were to order a whole new set to compare the pipes or drive my car 200 miles each way to the Pypes shop so they could see the install themselves.

With Carlisle GM Nationals coming up in two weeks and my having a short-notice government trip to India in just three days, my only REAL options were to either retrieve my car unfixed or pay them to fix the Pypes system enough to hang the tail pipes (it was way TOO loud to drive without them).

The exhaust shop was pressing me to make a decision as the car had been in the shop for 5-6 days at this point with no progress. They had other techs try to make it work and all agreed that the pipes could not fit unless they were reworked. I was quickly making enemies of these guys as I passed on the comments of Pypes and insinuations that they must "just be doing it wrong."

I paid them to make the tail pipes fit. It cost $300.00. I do 2-3 car shows/cruises per month and people look over my car very closely. The exhaust system is still not right and I hate to look at it.

As I'm now at the $700 mark for this install, I wish I had just bought the Flowmaster kit for $297.00, swapped the Flowmaster 40's with my Turbo Flows and pocketed the remaining $400.00. I'm an unhappy customer.

But I'm not done.

I drove my car to the GM Nationals in Carlisle and spent Saturday trying to get a Pypes representative to look at the install. Making no progress, at 12:00 noon I just drove the car through the fairgrounds to the main Pypes location and parked in front with the motor running. The Pypes rep had stepped away and was not there. My car was very noticable. People gathered around my car and wanted to chat. Pypes customers came over to chat too.

The Pypes rep came back (Brandon). His first comment was "wow, that's a nice car." I told him the story. He looked over the install and said that everything looked correct (remember that this is after the system had been re-bent and cut to fit). He asked me to call the owner again and discuss. I'm back to square one (maybe square 1.5). I will call Pypes again next week to see if we can sort this out.

I don't mind a company making a mistake....no one is perfect. I even thought that I had somehow done something wrong with the install until I had eight other people try and find the same result. With the number of competent people that looked at my exhaust, and every one of them in agreement (without me baiting them on what I had found wrong), I place the blame for this on two misbent pipes and I will continue to work with Pypes to get things made right.

[Calpantera]

I recently installed a Flowmaster American Thunder kit and it fit like a glove, the only cutting and fitting that needed to be done was at the hedder flange (obviously as all hedders are different). I would suggest this kit to anyone. It has an "H" pipe and not an "X" but its still a great 2 1/2 inch kit and it only cost me $249.00 and included 40 series mufflers.