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  #1  
Old Aug 9th, 06, 04:17 PM
WDW010 WDW010 is offline

 
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Default What does matching numbers really mean?

Hello, I have never posted on this site before and I am new to the Camaro scene. I'm sure this question has been asked and answered over and over but I want to buy a matching numbers car and need to know what I should be looking for. Do some of the numbers have to match? Do all of the numbers have to match? etc. What do they have to match? Thanks for any help.
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  #2  
Old Aug 9th, 06, 04:22 PM
elcamino elcamino is offline
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Default Re: What does matching numbers really mean?

You are going to get many opinions on this question.

But matching numbers it is supposed to mean the car has all the original parts that came on the car when new with the possible exception of a replacement part or two. Most all parts have casting part numbers and date codes on them, thus numbers match what the car is supposed to have if its original.

To many it means a car built from parts of many cars to replicate an original car with parts that would have come on it and not necessarily a original optioned car, such as a clone SS but all the number match a typical SS configuraion.

This is where the arguing always starts. Numbers matching means different things to different people.
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  #3  
Old Aug 9th, 06, 04:32 PM
WDW010 WDW010 is offline

 
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Default Re: What does matching numbers really mean?

What do the numbers have to match? The VIN? Is the VIN number on the cowl tag or somewhere else?
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  #4  
Old Aug 9th, 06, 05:00 PM
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Gary L Gary L is offline
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Default Re: What does matching numbers really mean?

I would say at minimum it means the original block and tranny with the vin stamped on them. Next would come heads, intake, exhaust manifolds, AIR pump, differential, distributor, master cylinder, steering gear, alternator, wheels, radiator, glass etc. with the proper date code to match the build date within reason. There is no way to prove any of the parts without the vin stamp to be original.
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  #5  
Old Aug 9th, 06, 05:53 PM
thorpe67RS thorpe67RS is offline
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Default Re: What does matching numbers really mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdouglas
What do the numbers have to match? The VIN? Is the VIN number on the cowl tag or somewhere else?
Yes, the numbers on the block, tranny, match the VIN on the car. To me..in its simplest form numbers matching means the car has the exact engine, tranny and rear end that it left the factory with. (Engine to me means, most importantly, the block and the heads) Some of these are verified thru vin stamps on engines and trannys..but depending on model/year not all cars received a VIN stamp.... so it can get a little ambiguous in many cases.
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Old Aug 9th, 06, 06:52 PM
mjs-13 mjs-13 is offline
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Default Re: What does matching numbers really mean?

The most important "matching numbers" is the original Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) plate on the car AND hidden stamped VIN numbers on the car match the Vehicle Identification Number on the title!

See the "I'm Scared" post to see why this is really the most important "numbers matching" issue. If these numbers match, the matching number engine, transmission and reared are gravy!

I cannont tell you how many typo's I have found on titles where 1 letter/number is not correct. A "5" replacing the "S" in a mid-year Corvette VIN number on the title is a very popular mistake.
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  #7  
Old Aug 9th, 06, 07:22 PM
RamAirDave RamAirDave is offline
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Default Re: What does matching numbers really mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW010
I'm sure this question has been asked and answered over and over
You would be correct. Here's a 3 page example:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70887


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  #8  
Old Aug 10th, 06, 07:52 AM
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Default Re: What does matching numbers really mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW010
What do the numbers have to match? The VIN? Is the VIN number on the cowl tag or somewhere else?
Date codes for example, if you had exhaust manifolds with the correct casting number but dated a month after the car was assembled they wouldn't be correct. As pointed out some feel numbers matching means the car and parts as it came off the assembly line. Others feel it's just hunting around for all the right parts and dates that would be correct and assembling a car with them. Others feel restamping dates and other numbers makes the car numbers matching.

There are more descriptions than that and now you'll hear terms like "date correct", "numbers correct", "all original" and "survivor"... there are clones or tribute cars that are more correct than survivor cars. The numbers game isn't for the faint of heart. It gets real intense as well real expensive.

I wouldn't recomend anyone without a background in Camaros jumping into the numbers world. you'll need large amounts of expendable cash, thich skin and the patience to wade through the muck. There are many other ways to enjoy the hobby that are less intense...
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  #9  
Old Aug 10th, 06, 08:24 AM
JimM JimM is offline
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Default Re: What does matching numbers really mean?

To me, the term numbers matching is very simple.

"The car can be proven to have the drivetrain it left the factory with," period, end of discussion.
That would include the engine block, trans, and rear axle.

So few cars still exist this way that a lot of "stretching" is going on. Terms like "numbers correct" which to some would mean an accurate recreation of how the car left the factory.
And then you get into "clones" "recreations" or just plain "NOM" (non-original motor)
A clone or recreation is an SS, Z, COPO, or whatever that was created from a base car, it was NOT a Z or SS or whatever when the factory built it.
It is said, perhaps even seriously, that there are more 69 Z28's on the road today than Chevy ever built in 1969.
NOM is a real Z or SS or copo or whatever that has lost it's original engine or drivetrain thru the years.
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  #10  
Old Aug 10th, 06, 02:13 PM
Steptoe Steptoe is offline
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Default Re: What does matching numbers really mean?

One can go the next stage...to also be in possetion of the orginal handbook with imprint on the back page from the protecto-plate garantee papers...and the protecto-plate papers. also Orginal jack and tools.
Then there are the papers from behind the rear seat.
I have all of these except the papers from the rear seat.
Anything that I have replaced from wear tear (eg orginal rubber brake hoses, rear tail light lens) or moded(eg cast manifolds, carb, radio, hood lining) are all stored safely away.
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