[Rocketrod]

I have a 355 SBC that has less than 3,000 miles on a complete rebuild, by the previous owner, with new pistons, dart heads, cam, lifters, bearings, oil pump, etc. The motor runs well, good oil pressure (between 30-50psi). This week I noticed some valve train noise (chatter) when I pass someone on the highway, but at lower speeds its quiet. I attributed this to too much advance in the timing since I haven't completely tuned it. The noise may have been there for a while since I don't get to drive it much.

So today I was going to put on new valve covers and tune it. While I had the valve covers off I inspected the valve train and everything looked normal. I decided to start it with the covers off and much to my dismay after the engine had run for about 2 minutes there still was no oil spurting through the rockers arm. During this time the oil pressure was around 50 psi. I shut the engine off and checked the oil level which was full (I use 10W-30). I have seen this before when firing up an engine after changing heads if the rocker arms aren't adjusted properly, but never on an engine with almost 3,000 miles.

I started the motor again and slowly adjusted one of the valves 1/4 of a turn hoping oil would start coming out, but nothing so I set the valve back to the original setting and shut the engine off. I have some ideas, but I am looking for suggestions of what to look at next? Sorry for the long post.

[zdld17]

You have something plugged . Oil comes up from the main bearings thru the hole in the top block saddle. Then goes on thru the oil hole in the block to the oil galley behind the cam bearings. That lubes the cam.
The other oil supply comes from the oil pump hole in the block and goes thru 3 upper oil gallies. One galley on each side has the oil that feeds the lifter. Your lifters have a recessed groved area that picks up the oil in to the lifter body and pumps it on up to the rocker arm thru the hollow tube push rods , then on thru the holes in the rocker arm.

Do you recall if the lifters have this grove? Bu I guess you did not witness the rebuilt. If you have oil pressure , you should have oil in the lifter galley.

I would do more of what you did , loosen each rocker arm to allow the lifter cup to expand and wait a while to see if oil comes thru. May need to back totally off until arm clacks loudly, each one. You might need to squirt a little oil into each rocker arm ball seat to keep from galling. Are those areas dry?

[Rocketrod]

Originally Posted by zdld17

Do you recall if the lifters have this grove? Bu I guess you did not witness the rebuilt.

I didn't witness the build but he used a Lunati Bracketmaster cam and lifters.

Originally Posted by zdld17

Are those areas dry?

The areas are not completely dry, but they aren't flowing/sputing oil like they should.

[zdld17]

Try going back and adjusting each rocker while running, back off till you get clak clak. Then adjust til quiet , each one. See of the oil starts coming in. From what you are saying that there is little oil,, you are not making a mess , and you should. Those lifters could have never had a chance to fill totallly . IMO. They could be adjusted all way down ..

[Rocketrod]

Originally Posted by zdld17

Try going back and adjusting each rocker while running, back off till you get clak clak. Then adjust til quiet , each one. See of the oil starts coming in. From what you are saying that there is little oil,, you are not making a mess , and you should. Those lifters could have never had a chance to fill totallly . IMO. They could be adjusted all way down ..

I started the motor and after about 5 minutes oil finally started to flow out of the top of the rocker (not messy at all), but not spurting on all cylinders.

I slowly backed off each rocker (passenger side) until it clacked, which took almost one full turn, then tightened 1/4 turn. Oil pressure was steady a 50ish psi and the oil was flowing out the rockers (no change). I didn't do the drivers side since I am a little concerned with the oil flow after adjusting the passenger side.

[onedynadad]

Rod, I came looking for an answer to the same problem. I'm putting in a fresh 396 built by someone else out of state, for a friend of mine. Even though this engine was supposed to have been dynoed and through the cam breakin, I had my doubts when I got it, so I preset the valves at half a turn past O lash cold. While priming the oil pump, I got about 12 out of 16 getting oil. Having that happen before with no problems, I fired it up and waited on the oil. Eventually I had some shooting over the fender and others with just a trickle. Backed them all off and back several times trying to get better results. Some did and some didn't.Since I had good oil pressure, I decided to do the 20 minute run at 2K rpm. Engine sounded great with a slight miss once I backed it to idle. Figured one last adjustment in the morning would solve it. When I pulled the covers, immediatley I noticed a burnt rocker. Pulled it off and the ball tip of the pushrod fell in my hand. I'm getting nervous now. It happend to be the number 4 intake, which you can get the lifter out with a magnet. Lifter looked good, but had a weak spring back. After putting a little air pressure to it and pumping on it with a pushrod, I got it back up to a firm piston. It started pumping over the fender immediatley. I think ZDLD has it nailed. If the lifters have bled down, they may not pump back up with pressure on them. I still have too many that aren't up to speed. I have one left that seems to be collapsed based on the amount of turns it takes just to get to zero lash.
I went ahead and drained the oil and will replace it tomorrow. Do you guys think going to a strait 40 or 50 wt. oil would help?
I may have a worse problem though that may be causing this one. I have a lot of white sludge in the radiator which is obviously an oil or possibly tranny fluid. It's a brand new aftermarket radiator and I don't know if it had something in it from the factory or if I have a crack in a water jacket, or if there is tranny fluid leaking inside the radiator. After two flushes it seems to be down to a minumum, but I didn't want to fire it up anymore until I get some help with this one. What I don't have is any water in the oil pan or tranny fluid, best I can tell by the dipstick. Levels are the same. Any clues? Thanks, Gary

[zdld17]

Rod, I would check the other side and look for issues and burnt rocker pivot balls as that is what will happen also due to lack of oil... While apart , check the path in the push rod, oil hole in rocker arm. Sometimes they plug or as Gary had, the ball will come loose from the stem, if yours are welded , if they are one peice, I don't see that. Put some oil in that pivot and do more checking. I think you will get it. If you still have problems, I would pull manifold and pull each one and take them apart to check the disc and valve,, they have been known to stick and thats the part that makes them work. Be careful to place back in same hole so you have no wear pattern issues. Its more work but worth it...

I know a lot of people don't do the overnight soak of lifters, to expend all air in the new lifters but its an old school thing. I always do this and go one step further. I rig up a push rod in my drill press and press down on each one while in oil,,, more times than any, you will see more air bubbles coming out of the lifter. GM dealers had a special bleeder cup like this as part of their special tools. Thats where I caught on.

[onedynadad]

TC, I got in trouble a few years back because I always soaked my lifters also. There was about a 15 year void in my life in wrenching on cars and when I got back into it, I had problems with a SB not being able to bring the valves down pass 0. I was told that the new style lifters aren't supposed to be soaked and that I would have to replace them. Of course the new set of lifters had it marked right on the box "do not soak", but the first set didn't. What's the deal there? Are they all that way now? Do you have any clues about the sludge in my radiator. It's time to get back to work on it. I'll check back soon. Thanks, Gary

[zdld17]

Originally Posted by onedynadad

TC, I got in trouble a few years back because I always soaked my lifters also. There was about a 15 year void in my life in wrenching on cars and when I got back into it, I had problems with a SB not being able to bring the valves down pass 0. I was told that the new style lifters aren't supposed to be soaked and that I would have to replace them. Of course the new set of lifters had it marked right on the box "do not soak", but the first set didn't. What's the deal there? Are they all that way now? Do you have any clues about the sludge in my radiator. It's time to get back to work on it. I'll check back soon. Thanks, Gary

Never heard of that, but they all work off oil psi. Guess I will be on the lookout for this. There are only maybe two companies that makes lifters so I guess maybe the new are china brands?

[onedynadad]

Well this engine is toast. I tried to wish it right the best I could and now the best I can hope for is a bad intake gasket at the water port. This engine is a product of Durability Plus Engines. If your not familiar with him, he is doing some time right now for selling bogus GM parts, restamps, protecto plates, etc. We thought we were fortunate when they found this engine on his shop floor ready to roll after he went to jail, but apparantly not. Take care. Gary

[Rocketrod]

Originally Posted by zdld17

Rod, I would check the other side and look for issues and burnt rocker pivot balls as that is what will happen also due to lack of oil... While apart , check the path in the push rod, oil hole in rocker arm. Sometimes they plug or as Gary had, the ball will come loose from the stem, if yours are welded , if they are one peice, I don't see that. Put some oil in that pivot and do more checking. I think you will get it. If you still have problems, I would pull manifold and pull each one and take them apart to check the disc and valve,, they have been known to stick and thats the part that makes them work. Be careful to place back in same hole so you have no wear pattern issues. Its more work but worth it...

Well I adjusted the drivers side valves and the oil will flow, but not spurt, after about 3-5 minutes and this is the same for all the valves. All of the intake rockers flow more all than the exhaust valves for what its worth.

I then proceeeded to remove, inspect and reinstall each pushrod from the #1 cylinder. The pivot balls were not loose, showed no signs of being burnt and the tube was clear. In addition, the rocker arm show no signs of wear and the oil holes were clear.

After reinstalling, I readjusted the #1 cylinder with no change in oil flow. Even with the engine warm it takes about a 30-40 seconds before oil starts to flow. I really don't see the point of pulling each pushrod as I expect I will see the same thing. While I will probably end up pulling the intake and inspecting the lifters/pushrods it just really doesn't seem logical that it is something in the valvetrain since every valve is exhibiting the same symptom, low oil flow. I think I will sleep on before I do anything rash.

[zdld17]

I am feeling your pain here. I wish I could pull them for you. This is too simple ... even with 30 psi oil pressure , I would bet oil should squirt out across the fender or even across the head. Wouldn't everyone agree? Solids won't do this by hydraulics will.

Don't do anything drastic. Take your time. These lifters should pump oil to the rocker arms. Thats what they were designed for. If the whole batch is bad, well you are faced with opening one up and look for trouble , the spring collasped? Piddle valve plugged? Disc stuck? If you find something , Super,, then thats prolly your gremlin. If not,, you are faced with getting a new set and putting them on that cam. How new is the cam? See there is another gamble. Take it slow. From the way you talk is that those lifters are pumped up or collasped. You should be able to see that if you have one out. Just wonder now if they are hydraulics? Have you tried to set them with a little clearance and see what happens? See what you can find.
Anyone else got anything to add?

[Rocketrod]

Originally Posted by zdld17

How new is the cam? See there is another gamble. Take it slow. From the way you talk is that those lifters are pumped up or collasped....

The cam, lifters, pushrods and roller tip rockers all have about 3,000 miles on them. At this point I hope it is the lifters, but I have a hard time believing all of them are bad.

A couple things do come to mind.
1. Can an improperly installed cam bearing limit flow to this area?
2. The guy who built the motor was a drag racer and the motor was originally intended setup for racing. Could he have installed oil restictors in the block to limit oil flow to the valve train?

I doubt thats it but I might as well ask before I remove the intake.

Hey worst case this will give me an excuse to remove the engine and then redo the subframe that I was planning on doing end of next year.

[zdld17]

Hah,, racing! Now you are close, If I had done this,, I would have installed either flat tappet or roller lifters. So I will shoot for the cheaper method. Check those lifters,, They may be solid. Now as for the restrictors, Thats another point,,, If the rockers are needle bearing type,, they don't require much oil , the idea was to put the not needed oil at the crank via restrictors in the back cam bearing ( or at least thats what I did) .
Now, You said that rockers were ball and seat so this may be an issue here .
Improper cam bearing installations will only result in a burn cam journal in my thinking. You would have to miss the hole entirely. I doubt this is the case. But never know .

Go pull your intake first . Look at the lifters to see what they are or if you can make that decision looking thru the head push rod holes. If they are solids, then you got that out of the way... I would look for some roller bearing trunion rockers that will fit under your covers. You can spend $$$$ for comp magnums or spend $$ for some other brand. I have heard little about the Crane vacumn cast energizers? but never run them.. Be selective here. You will prolly live well with those solids and full roller rockers.
As I mentioned , you dont know if those lifter are solid? Did you get the cam card? If not try doing some lash testing , what works best and is not noisy. .016/ .018 ?? .022/024? I dont know, Just have to work with what you have. If you have to pull the cam , look for numbers.

If you are gonna pull motor, might as well take it down to a short block and look and see what it is. Surly the guy can bring you up to date,,, he's already got your money so just get him to level with you and help you out of this. What did I miss? Anybody else? See ya in the morning about 5 am.

[fatblock]

Try setting your running lash to non clatter and move on down the train.When all the valves are adjusted zero lash,shut er down.Now add a half turn to each adjuster nut.This should center the check valve.Now restart the engine.