[mkpatrick]

Well my drill motor idea didn't work that well.
I got all my lines hooked up, filled up the resevoir and turned the pump pulley with a drill motor. I chucked up a 3/8 threaded rod into a drill, then using nuts and washers attached a spare pulley and drove the pump via a belt between the drill pulley and the pump pulley.
It worked OK with just circulating the fluid and with the car up on jacks, I had my wife turn the steering wheel from lock to lock for awhile and noticed I had to keep adding fluid.
Pretty soon it leveled out and although it got a bit frothy for a few minutes, it seemed to settle down.

But with the car on the ground, turning the pump with a drill motor and trying to turn the steering wheel, as soon as the pump had to work, it was too much for the drill motor and immediated stopped it or threw the belt.
I guess I just didn't know enough about the operation of these pumps. It takes an engine's momentum to keep that pump going when it is under load.

So tomorrow, I'll preflight the baby, add fuel and go for engine start. Then we'll see if this power steering pump will work.

I'm hoping for no leaks....

[Everett#2390]

Human manual labor is what? Very light.

We cannot hold the belt as tight as the bracketry. The drill motor does not develop nearly enough hp to turn the pump under load, wheels on the ground.

You'l be fine. It is good you primed the system.

Check flaps before flight.

[BlackoutSteve]

Power steering loads can sometimes be enough to stall an idling engine.
More than enough to kill your drill or break your arm trying to hang on!!

[JIML82]

To deaireate the power steering system, you really don't have to rotate the pump pulley to get the air out. You can use the piston action of the power steering gear to move the oil throughout the power steering circuit.

With the engine off and by just rotating the steering wheel back and forth (full lock to full lock) the rack piston inside the steering gear will effectively pump the fluid and any air through the lines until the air can rise directly into the pump reservoir - and out.

When you rotate the driveshaft on the power steering pump (with the engine or other means), any air that is circulating in the circuit gets whipped to a froth when it enters the spinning power steering pump. Then you have a milky, air filled mixture that is now being moved through the system. The mixture takes up more room (and expands far more) than pure fluid so many times you will find the reservoir overflowing. It now takes quite a while for the very small air bubbles to come out of suspension in the fluid and make their way to the pump reservoir. You will note that the pump reservoir is typically the highest point in the hydraulic system. Air will eventually rise to it and escape to atmosphere.

JIML82

[mkpatrick]

Thanks guys....

[mkpatrick]

So uhhhhhhhhhh............

Will P/S fluid damage the paint on my car? And the finish on the valve covers, the aluminum manifold, the windshield, the billet aluminum parts or the drywall of my garage ceiling?

[Everett#2390]

Won't hurt metal or paint, by will stain the drywall.

[mkpatrick]

I got about 20 seconds of P/S before this hose, split and the P/S fluid shower was ON.

By the time I got the engine off, much of the fluid was out of the system and distributed evenly through the garage and over the car. Most of it is on the floor.

Here's what I got:
I have 3/8 hardline, coming from the outlet of the P/S box, it goes forward to the radiator, makes a bend or two and then converts to flexible line for about 6 inches, then enters the fluid cooler. It exits the fluid cooler via flex, converts to hard line again and back to the pump.

It was the section of flex that is between the fluid cooler's inlet and the hardline that is right off of the box. It was a section of hose about 6 inches long that split right after the hose clamp. (that hardline ends in a double flare that I pushed with great difficulty, into the hose it connects to)

I fixed it.
I cut the hardline back though, on suspicion that the flare may have cut into the hose or weakened it somehow, as that is most near where the hose split. So I cut back the hardline so that now it is hose that makes the bends and the hard line is just straight. It has no flare and I slipped the hose over the end of it, the hose is over the hardline by at least 2 inches. Then I hosed clamped it very tight.

I ran the engine again for awhile. I let the engine come up to SOT.

Here is what I notice:
It seems to me, that the hose connecting to the inlet of the fluid cooler, is under quite a bit of pressure. It almost seems like the hose is on the verge of bulging right near the hose clamps and it feels very hard like its under a lot of pressure. It is coming from the outlet of the box.

How much pressure is usually present coming out of the box?

The hose leaving the fluid cooler seems less hard and although it too seems a little bulged at the hose clamps, it seems less so.

Does this seem normal? (perhaps I just had a defective hose and it was a fluke that it split? orrrrrr maybe I'm developing too much pressure at the inlet of the cooler for that hose?)

I will say the fluid cooler seems to be cooling well because the temperature of the system as a whole seemed quite acceptable. I was able to touch all lines and they seemed warm but not hot.
But this fluid cooler, was a generic one that I think was meant for cooling transmissions.

Could it be that the P/S fluid is being restricted too much through the cooler and causing too much pressure to develop at the inlet to the cooler?

[Everett#2390]

It is good to read your face/skin/body was not in the way of the leak. P/S pressure is usually around 800-1200 PSI., can you imagine a knife edge?

Most p/s systems for the street do not have coolers, at least mine doesn't. Cooler, if one is there or added, should be pressurized & tested for 1.5 times the operating pressure, should be installed between the pump and box/rack on the supply hose.

As for the hose bulging, it could be old. I know mine are OE. So if your are OE hoses, then any different direction the hose is moved to from its natural state when installed, you're asking for trouble, as you seen, hose splitting and bulging.

[JIML82]

I think that you hit it on the head with respect to the cooler. The fluid coming out of your gear box doesn't have any pressure. The pressure is developed as the fluid has to go upstream through the tubing, hoses, and cooler.

I would make sure that you don't have any kinks or dents in tubing that makes up your cooler. The cooler tubing should be 0.375 inch OD. I would think that the wall thickness of the tubing should be 0.028 inch. That would make the inside diameter of the tubing 0.375 - 0.028 - 0.028 = 0.301 inch. You might look for a ball bearing that is somewhat smaller than 0.301 inch a try to pass it through the cooler.

Also make sure that where your hoses are installed over the tubing that you don't have any sharp edges on the tubing that might be cutting the inside of the hose.

If I remember correctly, pressure hoses are typically designed to withstand about 5000 psi bursting pressure. The low pressure return line hoses are of a much more simple construction and are designed to withstand only a couple hundred psi.

Typically, if you have a major restriction in your return line hoses or pipes, you should be able to hear your pump straining as it has to continually build pressure to try and overcome the restriction.

JIML82

[mkpatrick]

Originally Posted by JIML82

I think that you hit it on the head with respect to the cooler. The fluid coming out of your gear box doesn't have any pressure. The pressure is developed as the fluid has to go upstream through the tubing, hoses, and cooler.

I would make sure that you don't have any kinks or dents in tubing that makes up your cooler. The cooler tubing should be 0.375 inch OD. I would think that the wall thickness of the tubing should be 0.028 inch. That would make the inside diameter of the tubing 0.375 - 0.028 - 0.028 = 0.301 inch. You might look for a ball bearing that is somewhat smaller than 0.301 inch a try to pass it through the cooler.

Also make sure that where your hoses are installed over the tubing that you don't have any sharp edges on the tubing that might be cutting the inside of the hose.

If I remember correctly, pressure hoses are typically designed to withstand about 5000 psi bursting pressure. The low pressure return line hoses are of a much more simple construction and are designed to withstand only a couple hundred psi.

Typically, if you have a major restriction in your return line hoses or pipes, you should be able to hear your pump straining as it has to continually build pressure to try and overcome the restriction.

JIML82

The ball bearing idea is good.

Most of the time, people don't even use a cooler for these applications but the reason why I did in this case was because the box is so close to those headers and they get so hot, that I felt I may be cooking that P/S fluid in there.

The hose looks bigger diameter next to the hose clamps, I know this is going to happen a little but the diameter of the hose, seemed to get bigger compared to the hose clamps after running it for awhile. I have those hose clamps as tight as I could get them.

But still, the question remains, why would it build pressure AFTER the box? Is the fluid pushed out of the box or is it sucked into the pump by the pump itself?

Is there a cooler made for P/S?

If so, perhaps I should just use that? If this is a tranny cooler and I think it is, how much pressure is exerted into a tranny cooler by a transmission typically?

[Everett#2390]

Originally Posted by mkpatrick

The ball bearing idea is good.

It is a good idea only if its a hollow tube cooler, does not have any turbulence fins inside the tubes. Most of the high-end coolers will have them.

Most of the time, people don't even use a cooler for these applications but the reason why I did in this case was because the box is so close to those headers and they get so hot, that I felt I may be cooking that P/S fluid in there.

Most of the time, not an issue.

But still, the question remains, why would it build pressure AFTER the box? Is the fluid pushed out of the box or is it sucked into the pump by the pump itself?

The return pressure is still around 250-300 PSI. and the fluid is pushed.

Is there a cooler made for P/S?

Yes, '60's & '70's fords have them bolted/made into their supply lines.

If so, perhaps I should just use that? If this is a tranny cooler and I think it is, how much pressure is exerted into a tranny cooler by a transmission typically?

Yes, there are aftermarket p/s coolers out there, not just restricted to OE Ford coolers.

Transmission oil return pressure is usually less than 40 PSI.

[mkpatrick]

Wow only 40.

I may have put this little cooler into more than it can handle. They are probly not designed for this much pressure.

[JIML82]

Are you sure that the hoses being used in your return lines are made from the correct material? You want PS Return hose. Some hose materials will swell when in contact with hydraulic or power steering fluid.

Even with a cooler you shouldn't be running more than 75 to 100 psi at the outlet of your gear back to the reservoir.

Ford used a power steering cooler on the Taurus back in the 90s that ran under the radiator. It had a 3/8 inlet and outlet but the center section was actually blown up to 1/2 inch or more (probably to reduce back pressure). It did not have fins, just a long tube that ran across the front and back.

JIML82

[mkpatrick]

Is the hose marked with something that will identify the type? I bought this from a place near here that is called Williams Oil Filter Service. They make up high pressure lines and in fact, they made my high pressure line that I have in the car now.
When I asked them about the return line, they threw in this flexible line that is 3/8" i.d. hose.

The cooler is 3/8 but it doesn't get bigger, it stays that size from inlet to outlet.