A question about my '69 - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 01, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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I'm the owner of a one owner '69 sport coupe born in Van Nuys and lived in Lakewood (LA suburb) all it's life until I brought it to Indiana one year ago. It's a 230 inline six (140 hp) with a three speed manual tranny shifted on the column. I have the original title from '69 and have talked with the owners son and wife(father passed away). It still has the original standard interior. It was the 20,015th Camaro built in Van Nuys in Feb of '69. My question is this. The front seats are non-head rest seats. The son and wife of the former owner say that these are the original seats. I've even seen photos from 1969 when it was new, and the seats were non head rest types. I thought that with the '69 model year that the front seat came standard with head rests. It's totally unmolested without a speck of rust, and with the exception of a re-paint a couple of years ago it's never been updated. The interior is showroom original as is the carpet. The owner kept it garaged in a garage without windows.

Any ideas about the seats?

Thanks!
QuikZ

[This message has been edited by QuikZ (edited 02-13-2001).]
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 01, 09:53 AM
 
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As far as i know the 69s had an option to get headrest i dont think it was standard mine has head rest but doesnt have the discs or powersteering,lockc,windows. They were all options sport coupes especially were mainly base everything
tim
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 01, 12:51 PM
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Head restraints became law for any car sold in the US after January 1, 1969. Some Camaro feature articles have listed option AS2 "Less Head Restraint" but I have not seen it in any Chevrolet ordering info.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 01, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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I sincerely appreciate all the info. So if indeed these are original seat it would be an option?

Thanks!
Joe
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 01, 05:30 AM
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Gene
 
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QuikZ,

If your car was built after 1/1/69, it should have headrests. Seats without headrests would not have been an option after 1/1/69 because headrests were required by federal law. I would recheck your build date. I have a January 69 Van Nuys base model car with almost no options and it has headrests.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 01, 09:31 AM
 
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Found this about the law at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/...y/status9.html
also http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/include...ries/B0127.htm

Effective January 1, 1969, each passenger car manufactured on or after that date had to comply with the requirements of FMVSS No. 202 [9]. The standard required a head restraint for the driver position and right front seating position to reduce the frequency and severity of neck injury in rear-end and other collisions. The restraint was intended to limit rearward motion of an occupant's head in a rear impact crash, thereby preventing whiplash or neck sprain injury due to hyperextension of the neck.
...etc, etc.

GM had a lot of power in those days. It wouldn't surprise me if they got permission to use up their inventory, even past 1/1/69.

[This message has been edited by Ken67SSRS (edited 02-15-2001).]
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 01, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
 
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Everyone here:

I sincerely appreciate all the info!. What terrific responses!! I didn't imagine I'd get this kind of help and knowledge...just goes to prove there are a lot of helpful people out there!! Thanks so much...I will recheck the build date...and I would also agree that it wouldn't suprise me that the 'General' would have that kind of clout!

Thanks!
Joe
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 01, 11:08 AM
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335 69 Camaros had the AR1 option, head rest delete. Someone would really have to know what they were doing to order them deleted. Some people complained about the $16.90 charge for the mandatory A82 option that occurred on the pre-January cars and they could get there money back (see Service Bulletin TB 69-T-1).
January and later cars didn't have the option cause they were federally required and included in the base price.
And GM could not get around that requirement, no way, no how. And I understand the seats are the same except for a plug where the headrest goes. So there was no inventory issue.

Could you post your VIN and trim tag info to help get to the bottom of this?


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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 01, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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Kurt S,

Here's the info:
VIN # 123379L520016

Trim Tag :

ST69 12437 VN257637 BDY
01D 61 61 PNT
TR711 T521

My understanding of the 01D code indicates it was built in the 4th week of January in Van Nuys. This is in opposition to the Federal mandate of 1/1/69. I have seen photos of the car shortly after it was purchased in the first week of March 1969, and you can clearly see non headrest seats. Could this have been done by the dealer? This is more of a mystery now than before. The owners family just stated matter of factly that this was the way they bought it new.

Thanks
Joe

[This message has been edited by QuikZ (edited 02-15-2001).]
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 01, 05:31 AM
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Does the car come with any documentation like window sticker, invoice, etc?
At this point, I'd have to believe it was done by the dealer.
Are the holes for the headrests there, but just covered by plugs?

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 01, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
 
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Kurt,

I spoke again with the former owner last night. He's checking for any other paperwork from the sale. This Camaro was ordered in the fall of '68 with the head restraint delete option. It came into the dealer that way. I may have better documentation soon. While I've checked beneath the seats (both front and rear) I've not checked behind the rear seat back for the build sheet. I've heard that the Van Nuys plant was know to place them there as well. I will be checking there this weekend. Hopefully I'll find it.

In speaking with the former owner I truly believe him to be an honest and very up front person. I'm beginning to believe it is a AR1 RPO.

I checked to see if there was a head restraint mounting plate below the vinyl, and could not feel a mounting plate or plug, but without removing the seatback cover I can't be 100% sure. There was nothing 'solid' where I thought I should be able to feel a solid retangle shaped object. I felt a lot of seat cushion.

I hope to find the build sheet this weekend, or the sales sticker from the former owner.

I'm just not yet ready to say that it is an AR1, but all that I've heard and seen so far sure points that way.

I sincerely appreciate all the help with this!

Thanks!
Joe
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 01, 09:42 AM
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Check for the build sheet on top of the gas tank on the drivers side. It'll be glued onto the tank. Many LA camaro's have their sheets there.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 01, 10:41 AM
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The seat pattern is correct for a 69?

Hope they come up with some documentation. Cause as it stands, the car was built in 69 and legally had to have the head restraints. Without documentation, it is just heresay that it was ordered this way, no matter what everyone believes.

You'll have to drop the tank to look for the broadcast sheet. If it is there, be careful cause it will be fragile.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 01, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the info guys, and the tips about the build sheet...I will be careful. I'll keep the forum informed as to what I find...if anything.

Kurt,
The seat pattern is correct for the '69, and I agree with you that it's nothing more than hearsay until it can documented. Did the trim tag tell you anymore than what we already knew?

Honestly, whether it's an AR1 RPO coded car or not, It's still very cherry and a part of our family. Other than for insurance purposes I just don't care about the value...it's priceless to us.

Thanks again
Joe
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 01, 05:02 PM
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QuikZ, well have to get our LA camaros together sometime....I'm just down I-70 from ya...in Columbus, OH.

Maybe meet at Super Chevy in Indy this summer?

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'95 Camaro Z-28 - Sebring Silver
click here to see my webpage ---> www.mindspring.com/~mccorry (updated 2/3/01)
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