Another question on sheet metal - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 00, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
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Ken
 
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I finally went to a guy who seemed to know what he's talking about (he runs Gateway reproductions in the St. Louis area) and showed him my 68 conv. I have rust around the rear wheels and a crack behind one of the wheels. He said I still have original 1/4s and they aren't bad except what I just described. He said you can't find GM 1/4s anymore (especially for conv) and that nobody makes repro 1/4s for conv. If I buy full 1/4s I would wind up cutting a lot of it off (the sail panel and the area above the trunk lid corners have to be reworked. He described 80% quarters as going just up to the top ridge line but wrapping around the corner over to the tail light and a patch panel as being about the same with them stopping before the rear corner (but considerably cheaper).
He said I'd be as well off with the patch panel but that the sheet metal is not that good and since all are made in Taiwan anyway there is really no difference who you get them from.
My question is: does all this sound right? Whats your opinions on using the patch panels? How well do they hold up? How good does the body man have to be to make them look right? I really don't want to replace the entire 1/4s with something that is definately inferior.
I appreciate any info.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 00, 05:28 AM
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By what you described from what your body man friend said, he knows what he is doing. As far as the sheet metal goes, I have seen some of those panels(they came from Classic)and they really are not that bad. Also ask him if he can glue the wheel house area instead of welding it.

------------------
67 Camaro SS Conv.
70 Challenger R/T Conv.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 00, 08:08 AM
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Why glue the wheelhouse instead of weld??
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 00, 11:03 AM
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Winch,

Your guy sounds pretty knowledgeable about the repair process in general. His INFO was RIGHT ON in regards to the current state of convertible rear quarter sheet metal. I don't do body work myself but since I am currently having my car redone I acquired some info along the way from a guy that is just an unbelievable body/paint man.

There are some DEFINITE differences even from the panels from the SAME manufacturer. For example, Goodmark has some panels that supposedly are made according to specifications they supply to the manufacturer themselves. The LATEST rear deck lid sheet metal is VERY GOOD and caries a "GM Licensed" tag BUT the version just prior to the latest was not.

The problem is this, if the place you are buying sheet metal from, STOCKS alot of it, it still possible that they would have an earlier version of that deck lid and you wouldn't want that one. So I would deal with someone that is aware of these differences and can advise you of the current differences in what they can get you.

I am sure others can do this like Ground-UP but I would call Patti at firewheelclassics.com 1-800-711-0125 and ask her what she would suggest in regards to sheet metal. They restore cars themselves also and believe me they are pretty aware from a hands-on perspective what is good and what is not because they use the stuff on their own cars.

Having said all that, I know that the rear quarter sheet panels CURRENTLY are not very good. Sometimes even if you find an OEM fender that has ALOT of bondo in it, a good body man can strip all the bondo off, work the metal out by repulling the dented areas out as flush as possible with the surrounding areas and then if necessary apply a very then layer of bondo (1/8" to 1/4" thickness MAX)to in effect block the fender absolutley smooth to the surrounding areas.

So on a scale of 1-10 current IMO opinion current sheet metal offerings from Goodmark are as follows: (1- forget it, 10- NOS quality)

Rear Deck Lid (8)
Front fenders (6-7) (have new ones out)
Door Skins (6-7)
Rear Quarters (80%) (4-5)
Cowl Hood (8-9)
Lower Valance (6-7)

As far as patch panels go, I wouldn't hesitate in using them if needed epecially if you are patching into an OEM quarter panel. A patched OEM fender GENERALLY requires a LOT LESS work that a complete reproduction panel. With a good body guy, you won't EVER be able to tell where the fender was patched.

In my case I had a damaged fender that had ALOT of bondo it it and I found an NOS rally sport fender for $550.00 so I grabbed it and ran because these puppys normally for for 700.00 min!!!

Hope this helps!!!


[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 08-24-2000).]
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 00, 12:16 PM
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I've seen NOS coupe quarters go for $1200-1400 on ebay lately. I have never seen a NOS convertible quarter posted on ebay in the last two years. Like the other guys have said, no one make a repro conv quarter. Seems like you will be forced to use a patch panel unless you can find a cheap donor convertible and if it is cheap, the quarters are probably no good.
I think anyone that invested in the remaining GM fenders that was out there earlier this year could flip them for about twice that price pretty soon since I hear they are all gone and GM sold the molds to someone. The rumor was that some Camaro club bought them, but I'm guess Goodmark must have bought the molds because I keep reading how Goodmark's quality is improving on this site.

[This message has been edited by bonecrusher67conv (edited 08-24-2000).]
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 25th, 00, 07:18 PM
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Using a glue in the wheel house to the quarter will help prevent rust in the future. The sheet metal panel adheasive has a very strong bond, and creates no burning of the panel in areas that are hard to apply rustproofing. Its a great product if used correctly. 3M makes a very good one.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 00, 08:15 AM
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As far as glueing the wheel houses, Austin pretty much summed it up. When you look at original 1st gen camaros, what does the wheel lip area look like on alot of cars?

------------------
67 Camaro SS Conv.
70 Challenger R/T Conv.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 28th, 00, 02:48 AM
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Interesting concept about gluing. Nice tip. If you do decide to weld because you want it to be more original looking you can get to that area inside the trunk. From inside the trunk or behind the rear panel you could pour your favorite rust inhibitor where the two panels meet on the inside. Thats if your a skinny **** like me that can get to those places. Interesting glue idea though. Would imagine it would have to be some tough stuff however.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 28th, 00, 01:24 PM
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Glueing the wheel house does work! I could only find 1 NOS panel for my 1969 Impala SS and my body man tried patch and glue on the other side. That was 1985 and it still looks great. Camaros & Classics has "complete Qtr. Panel, Conv, Repo" for $379.00 from Goodmark in their latest catalog which I just got. I don't know if they are any good or even really available.

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 29th, 00, 01:46 AM Thread Starter
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I emailed Goodmark yesterday. They don't have 1/4s for conv yet. They said Classic Industries is the one who has been going to produce them for 2 years now but still haven't. Goodmark didn't lead me to believe they would ever have them, but you saw them in their catalog?? They're probably like any place, it just depends on who you talk to.
BTW they said they're sheet metal is from .8 - 1.2 mm thickness - the same as modern cars.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 29th, 00, 11:20 AM
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Winch, the conv. quarters are in the "Camaro's and Classics" 2000 Catalog. 888-597-9002. page # 62
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 30th, 00, 01:38 PM
 
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Winch:
I finally went to a guy who seemed to know what he's talking about (he runs Gateway reproductions in the St. Louis area) and showed him my 68 conv. I have rust around the rear wheels and a crack behind one of the wheels. He said I still have original 1/4s and they aren't bad except what I just described. He said you can't find GM 1/4s anymore (especially for conv) and that nobody makes repro 1/4s for conv. If I buy full 1/4s I would wind up cutting a lot of it off (the sail panel and the area above the trunk lid corners have to be reworked. He described 80% quarters as going just up to the top ridge line but wrapping around the corner over to the tail light and a patch panel as being about the same with them stopping before the rear corner (but considerably cheaper).
He said I'd be as well off with the patch panel but that the sheet metal is not that good and since all are made in Taiwan anyway there is really no difference who you get them from.
My question is: does all this sound right? Whats your opinions on using the patch panels? How well do they hold up? How good does the body man have to be to make them look right? I really don't want to replace the entire 1/4s with something that is definately inferior.
I appreciate any info.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My friend just had the quarters on his 67 chevelle glued on, the bond is extreamly tough. Most cars today use glue instead of welding the heat from welding can warp a panel making you use more bondo than before. A very old wise body man once told me the more metal you take off the more you have to weld on remember on a Conv there is a panel right behind the wheel well adding strenght to the car my two cents patch it and keep looking for a full quarter and if you want replace it in 20 years.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 31st, 00, 02:28 AM
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OK, next question. What kind of glue is used for doing something like this? Is there something specific? I would imagine you would have to keep it clamped in place until it dried. Just wondering how its done. I like the factory look with the spotwelds (on the older cars anyway) but this is new to me and is interesting.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 31st, 00, 03:47 PM
 
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I have used this glue before and it works great. It eliminates warpage, is quicker, stronger, and doesn't start corrosion like welding. It also is an excellent seam sealer. It is a two part epoxy that is mixed as it is squeezed out of the gun. It is used by many body shops and should be easy to find, I used it on a door skin and it worked very well.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 31st, 00, 06:00 PM
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You can get the "glue" at any good paint and body supply store. It's not just glue though it is a structural panal adheasive. Bonding panels and door skins on is what it made for. There are many types of seam sealers out there, but this is NOT a seam sealer. When buying it make sure they know what you are using it for (they have adheasives for gluing differant types of surfaces- metal to metal, plastic to metal, smc, ect, ect.) You will need a metal to metal structural bonding adheasive. 3M and Duramix are two brands I have used and they are very good. I've also used Kent, but prefer 3M or Duramix. When using adheasive to attach a 1/4 panel it is suggested to spot weld the rear vertical portion, and the sail panel seam. If you glue the sail panel (where the 1/4 meets the roof) the seam where it was glued could show up in the future, not because it is cracking, but because the adhesive may expand and contract (with tempature) at a differant rate than the metal leaving a slightly visable line. In crash tests bonded panel fair just as well as welded panels.
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