Stroking a 305? - Team Camaro Tech
Tech 2000 Our previous General Forum
Replies ONLY - no new topics.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 00, 04:43 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stuart, Florida
Posts: 567
Post

I will probably be lynched for asking about hi proing an 05', but I just have to ask anyway. I just came across a 305 (HO?) roller motor. I believe it came from an 89' or so full size pickup. From the stand point of keeping the motor close to stock, but adding a little kick to it, what are the good and bad points to putting a 400 crank in it? What rods length should be run with it? For heads, does anyone know what the largest valve size that can be used without hitting the cylinder walls?

Thanks


------------------
Mark
1992 Firebird 355/Six Speed
1991 RS 350 / 700-R4
1987 Toyota Pickup 383 / 500 + HP
**How fast is just a matter of how much $$$ **
Mark W. Winning is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 00, 04:53 AM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 37
Post

I love misfit motors like these.....
With a 305 I think the World Torquer S/R 305 is a 1.94 head....should be a good bet for that puppy.

I think that yields something like 334 inches or something bizarre like that....probably looking at some serious grinding on the block like a 383 though.

Need a hardcore engine builder for this one, but I figured I'd help start it off.
Big Block Dave is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 00, 06:13 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Whittier, California
Posts: 246
Post

The only real problem that might come about is with the actual shape and size of the rod beam.

A rod that has a really wide or thick beam can interfere with the skirt of the piston from the piston being simply not big enough to clear the rod beams.

Some longer rods will have this problem with their design.

I use the 305 pistons in my .600 stroker Buick 215 aluminum V8s. Not bad stuff. I end up with 3.766 bores, and 3.400 stroke, and 5.700 latest small journal 327 rods. It kinda bolts together when the proper clearancing steps are done. I haven't tried longer Olds rods yet, so I can't comment, but the beams of the 5.7 rods are really close to the insides of the skirts on the pistons.

Might check with the engine people who do custom engines and see just what is available and works for your combo.
IgnitionMan is offline  
 
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 00, 03:43 PM
Moderator
Bill
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Waldorf Md. USA
Posts: 3,276
Post

Mark,
I have done 2 of those motors and they really are pretty nice for thier size. The first was in a 86 Trans Am with the S/R 305 heads, a mild Comp Cams cam and the factory tuned port setup. The thing would waste the back tires in 1st, 2nd and half way through third gear....bunches of torque. The second one I did was in a street rod, the guy really does not run it hard so it will live forever. I used stock GM 350 rods in both and had no problems with clearance except with the rod bolts hitting the camshaft, which is normal for this combination, same as the 383. A little grinding takes care of it. Also, just a slight amount of grinding on the block. The motor really does not need huge valves as it is more of a low to mid rpm torque monster, again...just like the 383.
All in all a nice combination if you have a 305 to start with.
Hope this helps,

------------------
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
BillK is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 00, 02:56 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Columbia, MO USA
Posts: 21,341
Post

Hey Iman,

What are you using the little aluminum buick engine for???
They are "dandies", so light that you can pack one off.
I had a Buick and an Olds years ago, in fact I might still have a stock four barrel intake for one of them somewhere. Post back if you want it, I couldn't bring myself to scrap it, it's too "cute". pdq67



pdq67 is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 00, 08:27 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Whittier, California
Posts: 246
Post

I just changed the water pump about three hours ago (darn thing quit after 20 years). It is in a 1972 Vega hatchback, with 5 speed, 7-5/8 10 bolt posi, 3.31:1 rear gear. Power steering, tilt wheel, 4 wheel power discs, A/C (I'm an old man, I need my comfort). Holley EFI that I am changing into a port nozzle setup from throttle body. Engine has a 300 crank (instant .600 stroker), bore out to 3.766 (instant 1/4 inch bore, 305 .060 pistons and sleeves-out from 3.500 stock bore). 327 small journal rods, 300 aluminum heads with stage II V6 valves. It gets 24 average mpg around town and as high as 29 on the highway at 70 mph steady speed.

I build these things all the time, but I only use the Buick heads on my engines, Olds has bad combustion chambers, hard to make not detonate on today's rot-gut fuels. Buick heads are great. 215 engine and aluminum 5 speed weighs just 30 lbs more than Vega engine and cast iron stock setup Vega engines have aluminum blocks and intake manifolds, but everyting else is iron or steel.

I left the car a disaster, and have loads of fun with 5.0 Butt-stainers. I make them get all their buddies together and go to the drag strip with me, then give all of them fits. Now, a nitrous Rusticle is not a thing I play with, but the ones that have been "hopped up" without nitrous, turbos and blowers are just a blast to beat.

I have a spare engine, and have been in contact with Norm Drazy at Whipple. He has a small screw design blower I think will fit under the fibreglass cowl hood. Might be a killer sleeper at the strip.

Mark, dare to be different, it's great!

IgnitionMan is offline  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 00, 04:13 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Columbia, MO USA
Posts: 21,341
Cool

Hey Iman,

I bet you do have a lota fun with your B&S aluminum motored Vega.
I toyed around with the idea of taking two of the little blocks and creating either a V-12 or V-16 engine by welding them together. I've got the notes in an old Engine Annual somewhere. they should be real easy to do this to since they are aluminum and not cast-iron. The biggest expense was going to be the billet crank and longer cam.
At that time, (like 25 years ago) I knew a "Pro" welder that was on to tackling "anything" metal and I do mean anything.

A couple of guys did this to two 350's I think and came up with a V-16. The only downside was in the main bearing area because after "furnace welding" the parts together they had to use thick mains to make up for the "line-hone" oversize that they ended up with. If I remember right, they even welded the cranks together. As well as the four heads and two intakes.
They coulda avoided that problem if they would of made a crank, but the price would have increased dramatically. Boy, it's amazing what a person can do if they "dare to be different"
Keep hammering those 5.0's with your Vega. pdq67



pdq67 is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 00, 06:14 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Whittier, California
Posts: 246
Post

pdq, did you realize that Buick in Canada, marketed a 225 cu/in V6 engine in 1965 thru 1968 with ALUMINUM BLOCKS AND HEADS? Those blocks and heads would have been the right stuff for your V12 project.

Billet crank would be relatively easy to make by good, involved machinist from a drawn, forged billet, cam could be hydraulic roller, also billet, and the distributor would also be easy, two six cylinder reluctors, piggy-backed together, with special off the shelf Jaguar V12 cap.

Either 2x4 or extended EFI for the induction.

But, then...I'd be berzerko enough to make the V16 instead. Just a little more for the family car, a little more of EVERYTHING.
IgnitionMan is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 00, 03:45 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: ohio
Posts: 252
Post

Mark; I have an article from CHP on a 305 build up and they tried a set of Trickflow Twisted wedge heads on the 305. The 2.02 in intake valves cleared the cylinders up to .650 lift on the valve. Note that these heads do have a rotated valve location. Note also these heads have 64cc chambers. This article says this results in a 9.1 compression with stock pistons. With a stroker crank and the right pistons, this might be the hot setup for you.
tom3 is offline  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 00, 03:48 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Columbia, MO USA
Posts: 21,341
Post

Iman,
Didn't know about the aluminum V-6, it would be a dandy too. I do know about an aluminum straight six that I think either Rambler (AMC) made or a slant six Mopar circa 1962ish (I think).
Of course, the Pontiac OHC head off the 250 straight six "Sprint" engine always fascinated me too.
If you want odd-ball, try the 1/2 a GTO four banger that Pontiac used instead of the aluminum engines that Olds and Buick used. I think it was a 194.5 cubic inch four banger. Huge for its day and vibrated like "Hog".

I was over at Duquene Ill. Sreet Machine Summer Nationals a while back and saw an overhead cam conversion on a small block. The guy with the literature wasn't around at the time so I didn't get to aquire anything about the conversion. It had a gilmore cog belt behind the waterpump that ran the two single OH cams. It looked cool as all getout. do you know anything about it???

Thanks for shooting the breeze with me.
pdq67



pdq67 is offline  
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 00, 03:17 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: V-burg ms, usa
Posts: 112
Thumbs up

Hey mark, give these guys a look see. hope this helps. http://www.strokerkits.com/


71 Camairo

71 Camairo is offline  
post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 00, 03:59 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stuart, Florida
Posts: 567
Post

Thanks guys... looks like I will give it a go.

I-man - I love "different" (read strange) cars. Thats why my race car (truck) is a Toyota pickup with a small block 383. I figured, anyone can build a Camaro or 5.slow...

DARE TO BE DIFFERENT!

Thanks again guys...

------------------
Mark
1992 Firebird 355/Six Speed
1991 RS 350 / 700-R4
1987 Toyota Pickup 383 / 500 + HP
**How fast is just a matter of how much $$$ **
"They only thing worse than drinking out of the toilet is driving a FORD."
"FORD, the other F-word"
Mark W. Winning is offline  
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 00, 06:57 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Whittier, California
Posts: 246
Post

I've seen the Ardeema OHC conversion, it is a mess/nightmare. He always sets a booth up at the Father's Day L.A. Roadster Show at Pomona. He always tries to start his display engines, but they never seem to get running.

I saw a funny article in one of the hero mags, Car Craft, I think, about 2 years ago. I don't read those things, but a friend came in waving this one. Had a "350" small block done with a 400 block and bore, 4.125, and a large journal 327 crank, longer rods, and they had just come upon this "new" super-duper whiz-bang technology. I have been building thses short stroke, big bore 350s for over 25 years. All he said is was that one of the engines I had built for him? I replied, "most of them were this engine, for the last 20 years on your stuff". His reply was to the effect of... Gee, I guess it takes a while for the magazine people to catch on, doesn't it! I said, "Yup"!
IgnitionMan is offline  
post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 00, 06:37 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Columbia, MO USA
Posts: 21,341
Post

Iman,
The small block conversion I saw was running like a "stocker". It looked like the cam was in an "extended/modified" valve cover, real "slick". The small gilmore belt cogged pulleys were sticking out the front end and everything fit between the waterpump and block. Is this like the conversion you are talking about???
Also, check out my latest post on the 409 heads if you are interested. I did some reading today, to me it's kinda neet. pdq67



pdq67 is offline  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 00, 07:09 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Whittier, California
Posts: 246
Post

Yup, that's the Ardeema.

The only problem with the Jag setup on the chambers is something you already answered for yourself, 30 percent lower everyting. Ever drive a Jag? Slow.
IgnitionMan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome