I need cowl tag and vin # off dash . . . mine is missing. - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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Tim
 
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Does anyone know if you can have a cowl firewall tag remade?

I bought a 68 camaro a couple of years ago that I was going to use for parts. the front clip was missing, etc.

But I have decided that the body is in too good of shape to waste.

But I went over to look at it in my storage and just noticed that the tag that mounts on the firewall is missing!!!
I have the vin tag on the dash, but that is all.

It is a 68 RS camaro V-8 non A/C 4 spd car.

If I can't get the tags redone, what should I do?

Does anyone have a parts car with the tags and title they would give me or sell to me?

I need help and suggestions. IF you want, you can email me directly at

[email protected]

thanks for all and any help.

Tim

PS . . . I am also looking for some 68 RS front end parts. Anyone have some??


------------------
ratchetmaster
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1972 454 ElCamino
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[This message has been edited by ratchetmaster (edited 04-25-2001).]
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 11:30 AM
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try www.tagplates.com they are foreign but they should be able to help you. i think they are in france or something.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 12:00 PM
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Aloha firt time i have heard of tagplates.com you might go to www.trimtags.com and see what they have to offer. there located in Illinois
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info guys. . . man they want $300 bucks just for a piece of metal??

And they would be guessing at what the car had in many ways. . .
Hmmmm

well, anyone have cowl tag and vin Tag they would sell me for less?

I guess I could get a title for someones tags they would sell me as long as it wasn't stolen.

------------------
ratchetmaster
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 02:32 PM
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Putting someone else's trim tag and vin on your car would be fraud and the DMV and police would be all over you!! This is one of those subjects where ethics come to play big time!!! I would leave the car as it is and get it on record with the DMV... It is what it is!!

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...Dennis
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 03:39 PM
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If you have the VIN tag that is in the dash, that is what you need to title the vehicle. The trim tag doesn't have a whole lot of meaning and it means nothing to DMV. If you don't have the title, you may have to apply for a salvage title using your VIN.

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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I know the subject of changing what a car really is or what it originally was has been discussed exstensively here before.

And, Dennis, I respect your opinion.

but I would dissagree that it would be fraud and that the police would be all over me.

An ethical question?? Yes. Some would find it dissagreeable. But I would not be claiming anything false about the car.

Change the subframe . . . different code. Is this fraud?

As long as the car was not a stolen car, and as long as the doaner car was not a stolen car, then basically it would be a
12437 camaro. And that is all.

What is the difference if someone puts all the SS or RS options on a car? Is this fraud?

Ethical questions but not fraud unless someone is trying to decieve someone else as to what something really is.

I currently own a car that has parts from 14 different cars. Is this fraud?

I know that in the state of california you can have a special construction permit and get a title for a car that was made from two cars. Is this fraud? Which vin tags do you use?? Would it be fraud to use one set other than the other?

Tim
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 06:57 PM
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Tim,

It's not about badges or options!!!

On the CA DMV site I found "Instructions for Vehicle Verifiers", here is a direct quote.
"When inspection of a VIN reveals evidence of tampering, alteration or obliteration of the number, immediately notify the nearest Department of Motor Vehicles, Investigations Section."

It doesn't matter how or why you want to change the VIN number It is considered fraud! In the eyes of the law, chop shops and car thieves are the only folks with the need to changes a Vehicles ID Number... If your's are missing damaged etc. you get the vehicle inspected by the CHP and if it clears they issue some sort of replacement or take the VIN from several other known places on the vehicle and you're good to go...

As for your parts from 14 different cars, you could be asked to provide a bill of sale for the various parts that can be verified with partial vins to be different than what your car is registered as... It's all in print on the CA DMV site www.dmv.ca.gov . I'm not saying anyone will come knocking on your door asking for reciepts because your classic was parked out front all day but they could if they want!!!

------------------
...Dennis
'69 RS Convertible w/SS trim
'96 Z28SS #1679 of 2410
"The Club"

[This message has been edited by DjD (edited 04-25-2001).]
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 07:04 PM
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I've got a friend who bought a
Chevelle from out of California.
Calfiornia CHP must "verify" the vin before the car can be titled here.
My friend took the car to CHP office, they noticed the vin tag had the wrong rivets.
When the vin tag is suspect, they go to the "alternate vin" which on a Chevelle is on the left rear frame rail top.
There is about an inch room from the rail to trunk floor.
Anyway, the number there is not matching the door plate vin. 66 Chevelle had them on the door post.
They are now impounding the car and are researching if it's stolen or not.
the car was badged and had the trim plate and vin of an SS 396.
My friend didn't care if it was a "real" SS or not, just wanted that body look, badging, and engine.
Now he does not have a car and has a ton of problems. This was supposed to be his wife's car to replace one she owned years ago. Now she's VERY UPSET!
As you know, when the wife's not happy the hubby's not happy either!

This is the kind of mess that can happen when vin tags are swapped.
As far as I know vin swapping is illegal and you are commiting a crime if you do this.
They will issue a new vin tag to you if you don't have one. You do have to prove you own the car though.

You said you have the vin tag on the dash, but a 68 has the vin tag on the driver's door jamb.
It's a stainless steel tag, is this the one you have?
Also DMV wants a second proof of ownership like a previous registration or pink slip to register the car.
The cars vin is also stamped under the removable cowl panel in line with the heater core, and I think a second place. If the vin tag or rivets don't look correct, they will look at the second vin.

In the case of the Chevelle the car IS whatever year the frame is. That's what the cops say.
There is a 55 chevy running around that is titled as a 56 because it has a 56 frame!
Camaros don't have numbers on the subframe, so we miss out on that one.

I don't think there is anything illegal to do with the trim tag as long as it is disclosed when the car is sold.
If you sell the car I would make up a disclosure statement and get the buyer to sign it to prevent getting sued later.
My friend will have a good lawsuit going on the Chevelle if it isn't released from impound soon and cleared.
David

------------------
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First Gen Suspension Page
67 RS 327
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[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 04-25-2001).]
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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I personally have had a "special construction" permit and combined two 67 camaros. I did not change vin #s but the #s did not match up. I used both vin #s and the CHP inspected the car. No problem.

if you are trying to decieve someone and pass it off as something it isn't, then you have a problem.

And what do they mean <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>tampering, alteration or obliteration<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>? That is not the same thing here.

But anyway, I suppose the best thing to do here would be to simply get a new cowl tag made up to match the car as best as possible.

The only thing 68 and 69s have is paint codes, interior options, vin # when the car is built in Van Nuys. All the other crap is probably truely "frauded" by people every day by simply puting the options on a car.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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David
interesting story on the 66.

The vins on 68s and 69s are on the dash on the drivers side.

I believe 67s are where you stated.

I also believe the sub frames are stamped. They checked my 67 for the vin on it to make sure it wasn't a stolen car too.

This was quit a # of years ago when I had a lot of time and energy to put a car together from a pile of scrap.

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 07:37 PM
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I read the line you quote as -if it looks tampered with you become a suspect- What folks overlook is that auto theft is big business... If you don't get the state's blessing you're setting yourself up for a fall!!!

This is from CRG;
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
In addition to the official VIN plate, a partial VIN is stamped on the body sheet metal in two places:

1.On the cowl in front of the passenger side (underneath the cowl vent piece). You can see it sometimes if you carefully look
with a flashlight through the slots in the vent panel, but the panel comes off with a few screws and the wiper arms pop off
pretty easily, so this one is not a big deal to get to. The linked photo of the top of a firewall with the cowl grille removed
shows a typical location for this stamp.

2.On the firewall underneath the fan motor. This requires heater box removal, and therefore most car buyers will not have an
opportunity to view this one. The linked photo of the passenger side of a firewall with the heater box removed shows a
typical location for this stamp.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think the subframe is stamped....



------------------
...Dennis
'69 RS Convertible w/SS trim
'96 Z28SS #1679 of 2410
"The Club"
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 01, 07:47 PM
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Wierd, I've got a 68 camaro and it's got the vin on the door pillar just below the door light switch. Nothing on the dash. Its a LOS built car.
I was under the impression the vin was moved to the top of dash, viewable from the windshield in 69?

Dennis, the Chevelle had a partial vin on the trim tag, I don't think Camaros have that on the trim tag.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page
First Gen Suspension Page
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Chev 350
Can Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 04-25-2001).]
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 01, 12:45 AM
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67 had the VIN on the door pillar while it then moved to the top os the drivers side dash veiwable through the window. my 68 RS is a LOS car with a 09C date with a VIN of 124378L302388 and the VIN is on the dash
--
Jeff 68 RS Ash Gold
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 01, 12:51 AM
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Dave you have me confused. i thought you had a 67 RS or are you one of those lucky ones that have a matched set one each 67/68/69
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