HEAT SOAK? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old May 25th, 00, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Drake
 
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I have been having starting problems lately.I suspect heat soak,but sometimes I can drive the car like I stole it,and it will start fine 10 minutes after being shut off.Other times I take a 5 minute trip and it won't start for over 2 hours.When it won't start it is totally dead,no cranking,no buzz or clicking.I have already put 2 new solenoids on,2 different styles of heat shields,run new wires to the solenoid,cleaned all connections that I can think of,adjusted the neutral saftey switch,with no improvement so far.But there is no pattern to it,like I said engine can be hot and it restarts fine,sometimes barely warm and it won't start.
If it is heat soak,I see many people have gone to a high torque mini starter.If the solenoid is what is heat sensitive will a mini starter really help?Wouldn't it's solenoid also get hot?If it will help what kind are you guys running,it seems many don't fit right even after shimming.Thanks,Drake

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old May 25th, 00, 07:38 PM
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I had this problem on my 68 Chevelle SS396. I used the fender mounted ford solenoid setup and the car had no more problems. Summit sells a kit but you can do it for less by going to your local parts store and talking to someone who knows parts and is not just a computer jockey. Another suggestion is maybe check your ign switch.Good Luck.

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Jeff
69 SSRS 396(roller 427 )
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old May 25th, 00, 09:26 PM
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I had a similar problem with my Corvette, and
I began changing parts to try to eliminate
the source. After many parts and time, I found a faulty clutch safety switch which
would intermittently open up not allowing a
start. Thinking about it now, it seems more
likely since the car is over 30 years old and
that switch opens and closes everytime you operate the clutch, just plain worn out.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old May 26th, 00, 02:46 AM
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i had a heat soak problem, but it wasn't as erratic as you state. the solenoid fixed mine, but i got quite a few comments on the chevelle post when i stated it. you may want to check the archives there. sounds like you may have some else besides heat soak.


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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old May 26th, 00, 03:05 PM
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Had the same problem once with a no start no click, found the positive cable had a lousy connection at the starter eye, frigged around for several days and finaly pulled on the cable in frustration, it pulled out of the eyelet and was so badly corroded its a wonder it would even work once.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old May 26th, 00, 03:47 PM
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If your car is or was an automatic, check the neutral safety switch. Check the battery ground to the block. Check the ign switch and it's plug in connectors. Check the small red lead from the positive bat terminal to the connection post at the radiator support. The juice that powers the ign switch comes from that small lead. Also, check where the fuseable links are near the horn relay, they can look good but act like resistors, limiting power to the system.
The fuseable link problem would probably cause the headlights to be dim too.
I think a lot of problems get blamed on heat soak when it's really something else.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen because it's happened to me on my motor home and a couple of trucks I have.
A good solenoid and lighter return spring solved all three of them. They are running today without any add on stuff.
In an emergency, you can usually get going again by holding the key on start, and having someone bang the bottom of the starter with a rock, hammer or pipe.
A problem created when a mini starter is used is that there is no longer the relay function that supplys 12Volts to the coil for starting, bypassing the resistance wire in the wiring harness. You will have to go to an electronic ign or install a relay operated by the starter lead that will supply the 12V to the coil.
FYI
A bad end bushing will cause drag and noise, and make the starter pull a lot of amps. The dome light will dim when cranking.
A starter that has worn brushes will act the same but chatter the solenoid and act real jerky. The brushes wear down until the brush attaching screws will hit the armiture, preventing good transfer of power to the armiture.
David

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old May 27th, 00, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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Drake
 
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WOW!Lots of good info.I did a search here and on the Chevelle site before I posted, and it pretty much was always blamed on heat soak.The more I drive it the less I think it is though.
I will have problems findindg the clutch pedal though Bob,it's a auto,and the dome light will be hard to find on my ragtop David.LOL,just kidding.
Thanks for all the info,I'll look into some of these other options this weekend.I'm kind of anxious,I can't take it to the track until I get this fixed!

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old May 30th, 00, 04:36 AM
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Stay away from the parts store solenoids. go to a chevy dealer and pay for a real delco solenoid. It will cost as much as a parts store rebuilt starter, and you get what you pay for.



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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Jun 1st, 00, 11:57 PM
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when i replaced mine, i got a real delco solenoid. look and see if you can find one at a parts supply house that deals delco parts. i paid $20 for mine in stock vs. the closest chevy dealer who wanted $35 and would of had to order it.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Jun 2nd, 00, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Drake
 
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Thanks for the tips.I am still working on this problem.I put about 125 miles on the car last Saturday,it started fine all day,and then when I got to one buddies house it did it again,no start.It had been sitting for about 20 minutes at the time,I got in and gave it a quick bump to see if it would start and it cranked fine,so I said goodbye to my friend and went to start it 10 seconds later-stone cold dead.We took a test light to it and when the key was in the cranking position it gave only a very dim light at the solinoid,so I figure a bad contact at the neutral safety switch or the ignition switch.So I put a new ignition switch in it this week,and cleaned up the contacts where the wires plug into the firewall.no chance to test drive it though,it has rained 21 out of the last 26 days here!
It also cranked overfine when we started it with a jumper wire at the solinoid.So at this point I have pretty much ruled out the starter and solinoid as the problem.
Two questions.1.David,where are the fuseable links you mentioned?I might as well clean the contact area,as you mentioned.2.Is there anywhere on the web that I can get a wiring diagram for a 67'RS?None in any of my manuals.Thanks.

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[This message has been edited by 67drake (edited 06-02-2000).]
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Jun 2nd, 00, 07:03 PM
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You might try throwing a starter shim in there. If it's just a bit tight, the starter gear will hit the flywheel and prevent the solenoid from making contact. I'd pull off the starter end cap and see if the brushes are getting short too. It's easy to change them and will prolong the life of your starter.
David

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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Jun 2nd, 00, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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Drake
 
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David,you posted your last reply as I edited MY last one,so you probably didn't see my starter onfo.Also,Where's Da Links?Thanks

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