69 302 cam specs - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old Mar 31st, 01, 10:45 AM
stenn5
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Can any body help with the specs on a standard 69 302 cam, 1st design offroad, and a 2nd offroad design cam? Also I was looking at Crane Cams and Comp Cams they both list 30/30 cam in their catalogs but they have different specs. What is the standard spec for these 3 cams and any other info would be very helpful. I have tried to find this info in some of the 5 Camaor books I own but they never have this info.
Thanks alot!
Mike
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old Mar 31st, 01, 02:36 PM
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Mike -

Standard 302 (30-30) cam, P/N 3849346
Casting #3849347
254 duration @ .050" (intake & exhaust)
.485" lift (with 1.5 rockers)
114 deg. lobe separation
Exhaust Max lift @ 116 deg. BTDC
Intake Max lift @ 112 deg. ATDC

First Design Off-Road cam, P/N 3927140
Casting #3927141
Intake 257 duration @ .050" (333 advertised)
Exh. 269 duration @ .050" (346 advertised)
Lift: .493" intake, .512" exhaust
Intake Max lift @ 108 deg. ATDC
Exhaust Max lift @ 116 deg. BTDC

2nd Design Off-Road cam, P/N 3965754
Casting #3965751
Intake 248 duration (324 advertised)
Exh. 267 duration (334 advertised)
Lift: .512" intake, .535" exhaust

(Thanks to Mark C.)

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old Mar 31st, 01, 06:11 PM
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Just a question I've always had in the back of my mind:
Why do they call these cams "30/30"? Back in the 60's,this term was known to be the hot setup and I've always just accepted it, but never knew what it really meant.
Thanks,
Joe

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 01, 06:12 AM
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Joe,

Good question!!! They were called 30-30 cams because you adjusted the valve lash on these solid lifter cams to .030 on both the intake and exhaust valves hence the name 30-30.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 01, 08:41 AM
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JohnZ Thanks for the very informative answers.
Now that brings me to a new set og questions, why were there 3 different 302 cam designs? Which is the better of the three? Or would a person buy a Comp Cams or Crane Cams remakes? Which of those are the better, has anyone ran them for some input? I have a 69 Ralley Green X33 Z28 all matching that I'am restoring for my own use so I'am not to worried about going a little hot on the cam, but I do want it how it would have been if it was raced or rodded in the fashion of the time period. I have all ready bought a set of American Racing Torq Thrust Wheels and T/A's. I know I like the rally wheels too, but all the resto Camaros have them and I want it for me in the era flavor. If I ever want to go stock I still have all the stuff.
Thanks Again,
Mike
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 01, 09:32 AM
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the 2 off road cams are really not streetable and the 30-30 is a 35 year old design. There are much better cams out now

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 01, 10:17 AM
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If you want to make it a bit more streetable, (read move the torque to a lower more usable power range) go with the '70 version of the Z cam. It is a dual pattern cam. I believe it's;
P/N 3972178, ID #3849347
Lift: .458/.485 I/E
Duration: 229/237 I/E @ .050

Still a solid lifter cam and the '70 did scoot!!

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 01, 11:38 AM
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Hey thanks guys for all this help, since you have all been down this road before heres another question, is their a better mechanical cam that is not factory, that would deliver great results? that is made today with todays tech?
Thanks again!!!!!
Mike
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 01, 02:10 PM
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Depends on what you're after, and how you're going to drive it. The original Z28 30-30 production cam and the two much nastier "off-road" cams (which were designed solely for Trans-Am competition, which was constant wide-open throttle between 5000-8000 rpm) were purely "horsepower" cams, as the 302 had very little torque and had to be spun up tight to make power.

What counts in a street engine is TORQUE, not horsepower; there are lots of newer-technology cams out there today that are designed for torque (which is what you want), and which don't require solid lifters. Call your favorite cam grinder, tell them what you expect to do with your car, and they can recommend one that will suit your needs.

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 01, 08:15 PM
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sr71bb, thanks for the answer. 30+ years of ignorance gone!
What a great site.
Joe

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 01, 11:33 PM
 
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My 2bits on camming a 302 Chevy. ( based on 20yrs expirence ). The fastest way to ruin the great characteristics of a 302 or LT-1 are to put a hydraulic camshaft into this slighly detuned racing engine. The 30-30 cam was designed by the great Zora Duntov as a replacement to his legendary 097 camshaft that was used in the Daytona Beach speed trials in 1956. The 30-30 was first used in the 1964 375HP/365HP Corvettes ( up from 360HP fuel injected/340HP carburated in the all new 63 Sting Ray ). The problem with the 30-30 camshaft and the 70-72 LT-1 cam is that they have very slow acceleration ramps on them to allow GM to get away with using the same lousy valve springs that they used in a 2BBL carb 283 motor. We now have much better technology avaliable but it will require better valve springs and installing screw in rocker studs ( I sold a guy named Chuck Hanson a 68 RS 302 Z/28 with a cowl plenum air intake and was deeply dissapointed that he did not convert his early heads to screw in studs during the rebuild - hope his original #s matching block is still in one piece ) and you really should pop for a set of Comp Cams Pro Magnum chrome molly steel full roller rocker arms ( they can be made to fit under your stock valve covers ) if you have the original 1969 302 aluminum valve covers, you wont have the cast in oil dripper that the later LT-1 rocker covers have and will save yourself the trouble of having to get them milled off by a machine shop to clear the roller rockers . I prefer to go to a full 7/16 rocker arm stud ( ARP 100-7101 ) to try to gain all the high RPM stability that I can without having to resort to a stud girdle or other full race stuff. The 30-30 camshaft is rated at 254 degrees of duration at 0.050 lift on both intake and exhaust with intake to exhaust lobe centerlines at 114 degrees seperation. I relly have had great luck with UltraDyne camshafts ( 10,000+ miles in my 1972 LT-1 vette: [email protected] qtr mile with factory 2.5" rams horn exhaust manifolds and 4.56 gears ). I would put a 276/280 intake/exhaust profile on the 302 on 110 or 108 intake to exhaust lobe seperation. The intake to exhaust seperation is closer than GM did but we shouldnt be as worried about exhaust emmissions as they were and we now have a much faster acceleration ramp that allows us to tighten this figure to build up bottom end torque and still have some idle quality. There will be as much or slightly more overlap than the factory 30-30 cam which will have a detrimental effect on fuel mileage - 1 to 1.5 mpg loss - are we worried about that? . I have a 280/284 on 110 degree lobe seperation in my 72 LT-1 350 that is now 10.5:1 compression. The 302 would stay at the factory 11:1 because it is a small short stroke motor it should still run on 92 octane pump gas at 36 degree total igntion timing ( all in by 3200 RPM ) and idle around 900 RPM. You will need to put a valve spring on the motor that has 110LBS to 130LBS seat pressure and 300 to 335LBS "over the nose" ( maximum lift ). Comp Cams has also released some new soilid lifter grinds in their Extream Energy line that are a little less agressive than the UltraDyne cams, they wont make as much power or RPM as high, but are probably $75 cheaper than an UltraDyne. I would not try to order any of this set-up from Summit or Jegs but would instead go to a local Cicle track racetrack find out from the racers who is a skilled machinist in the area ( watch who is runnig the hardest down the straights and most important! also finishing a 50-100 lap race without engine problems ) and go to them. I would not go to any Joe Blow machine shop and have them build my motor, there are too many unknowledgeable BS artists out there! Do yourself a favor and research this aspect of you car at the local track ( I dont mean the Drag strip either! ) you want someone who can make an engine last for the long term. There is one last thing to think about on you quest for power and that is the fact that the 302 Chevy has the heavyist piston installed on any small block! with the current cam designs and even the old 30-30 the 302 will exceed 7000 RPM if you have the book: Camaro Untold Secrets you can find in the chapter on engines that GM had several "Major Engine Failures" in dyno tests due to connecting rod breakage. You will also need to buy a new set of aftermarket connecting rods ( I will not help a person with his soild lifter small block unless they agree to but new connecting rods ). I have had good luck with both MANLEY sportmasters and CROWER sportsman series rods, stay with the 5.700 stock length that will give you the widest torque band in this already torque challenged 302 motor. I REPEAT! do not go to a 6.00 length connecting rod. You will be out about $500 for a set of quality connecting rods ( CHEAP INSURANCE!! ). The engine should also get a good porting job or a small set of aftermarket cylinder heads ( NO MORE THAN 180ccs of intake port volume! ) and a set of Hooker Super Comp Headers or Stahl Headers ( if you can afford them - $650 ) and most important - a PERTRONIX IGNITOR IGNTION AND BLACK PERTRONIX COIL inside the stock 302 distributor. You will end up with 375-400HP that is steetable, useable,enjoyable and most importantly RELIABLE! I have a good friend with a machine shop in the San Francisco Bay area if you cant find a shop in your area: call Dan at AMARALS ENGINE PARTS AND MACHINE 510-656-9351. You can EMAIL me with questions at [email protected] my name is Eric.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 01, 06:53 AM
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Eric, I agree - when I was rambling about hydraulic cams I had forgotten he was talking about a 302 - thought it was the usual 350 discussion. My 302 is dead stock except for a Pertronix unit and it's happy as a clam on 92 octane.

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 01, 03:55 PM
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I have the stock 30/30 in my car along with a Pertronix ignition, same as JohnZ. Runs great on 92 Chevron and I love walking to the back of the car and listening to the crackle of the exhaust. It just has a classic sound I never get tired of.

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 18th, 06, 08:48 AM
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Question Re: 69 302 cam specs

Sealed Power makes a camshaft they advertise being the same as a GM #3849346 with the 254 duration @ .050" (intake & exhaust) but with .455 lift. If you take .485 lift minus the .030 tappet clearance you do get .455 lift. Does any one know if this is why they are advertising the lift as .455? I think the sealed power part number is CS118R or something like that. Thanks.

Doug
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old May 1st, 08, 09:07 PM
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Re: 69 302 cam specs

Why is it that you can get away with high compression and 92 octane on a 302 and not a 350? Is it cam related in this case?

Also, why are the solid lifters better in the 302 than the 350. It sounds like if you had a 350 hydraulic it's ok but solid is still better in the 302?

Vince
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