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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 00, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Alamosa, Colorado
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Question

Has anyone had any experience with the 3M Windo-Weld Ribbon Sealer product for installing windshields and rear glass? DP.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 00, 09:04 PM
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Have used it several times works good. I hear that urathane window sealants in the tube are better plus a professional windshield installer told me that butyl sealants are not legal anymore (do not know if this is reality or not).

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68SS ZZ4, 4sp T-10, 12 bolt, getting painted

78Z28, 330hp vortec, TH350, 10 bolt (just finished)
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 00, 06:10 AM
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Jim
 
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Ive used more miles of butyl than I care to count. What do you want to know about it?

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67 Camaro SS Conv.
70 Challenger R/T Conv.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 00, 08:46 AM
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Carl
 
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DP,

I haven't used the urethanes, but I have put in a dozen or so front/back glasses in with butyl. It's easy to use, easy to clean up, and fills pretty sizeable gaps.

ragtopman,

Are the urethanes too strong for a first gen, making the glass a structural component?

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 00, 10:56 AM
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Jim
 
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Urethane is just what you need to install glass in a Camaro. Its the closest thing to reproduce a factory install with todays technology. They were'nt installed with just butyl tape back then. I like Essex brand urethane, try to stay away from the 3m stuff, lots of air pockets in it even after paddling it. And dont forget to use urethane primer with urethane, it wont stick with butyl primer.

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67 Camaro SS Conv.
70 Challenger R/T Conv.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 00, 01:50 PM
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Dan - Both my front and rear windshields were installed with urethane. After a year of experience with it I'd say it's the way to go. I got my existing rear installed for about $50 and a new front installed (incl. the glass) for about $160.

How's the project coming? The console work out OK for you?

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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed; '99 HD Road King Classic
www.geocities.com/sdenning1
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 00, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Cool

Ragtopman, my local glass guy is recommending the butyl product, however, I thought I had followed a string of communications here that the urethanes are really better. Since it appears that you have used both, which do you prefer?

Scott, I wish I could say I was "cruising along" with the project, but that damn job keeps getting in the way! I have completely restored the console and added the guage package I got from Classic Industries. I'm waiting on some of the interior parts to come in (including the carpet) so I haven't installed the console yet. I did set it in place though, and it looks great. Dan.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 00, 06:53 PM
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Jim
 
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Dan...If I was to put your glass in, it would be done with urethane, no 2 ways about it. I wouldnt even consider using a butyl kit. Why take 2nd best when the best is within reach?

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67 Camaro SS Conv.
70 Challenger R/T Conv.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 00, 08:06 PM
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Dan
 
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I've been in the glass business for about 11 years, so if you want my opinion, here it is: Go with urethane for your windshield and butyl tape for the backlite.

Tech stuff: Most urethanes cure to over 500 psi after 12 hours given 50+ relative humidity and temps over 70 degrees. Butyl is 35 - 50 psi max (You definately dont want just butyl holding your windshield in!)

Windshield: GM uses mostly Essex products in new vehicles. I'd recommend using their aftermarket version called U-400 with a glass prep and pinchweld primer called U459SA. You must use primer on the pinchweld. If some installer tells you different, just say "thanks" and walk away. Also, if you are not installing it, make sure you specify you want the "full cut" done and watch them do it if you can. (email me if you want more specifics on this if you want.)

Backlite: Adco & 3M make good butyl tape kits. They come in either round or square. I like square 3/8" because it has a factory look. It's very easy to use.

You can buy any of these products from most glass shops.

Dan

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My RS Conv. 2

[This message has been edited by dadjad (edited 08-12-2000).]
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 00, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Hey thanks guys! Your input is greatly appreciated. DP.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 00, 07:40 PM
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Carl
 
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dadjad,

Just curious, why such a strong bond on the windshield and not the backlite?

In the old Trans-Am days didn't they put two straps over the backlite to keep it from blowing out at high speeds? Would urethane be better for the backlite in a no-sideglass racing car?

Also, I believe there was some discussion in the past about urethanes being too strong for an early f-body and causing the glass to crack. Any thoughts?

Thanks for your help.

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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 00, 05:24 AM
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When I picked up my car originally - sad, rusty pile that it was - the back window was sitting on a dried-out butyl strip. It blew out of the car while it was being trailered across the Nevada desert. I had the replacement window glued in with urethane and it's been fine.

One note - the urethane tends to squish around a bit. My installer applied a thin strip of adhesive backed foam on the inside edge of the channel - this prevented the goo from squishing inside the car.

------------------
Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed; '99 HD Road King Classic
www.geocities.com/sdenning1
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 00, 06:40 AM
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Dan
 
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OK, You asked....

If I were doing my car, I'd use the following on both windshield and backlite:

Adhesive: Essex brand U-400HV (High Viscosity). You'll need two tubes to install both pieces.
Primer: Essex brand U-413 on the pinch-weld and U401 & U402 prep and glass primer.
Butyl: Adco/Titan brand RT-0105 Square tape You'll need two rolls to install both pieces.

I'd clean cut out all the old crud - right down to the pinch-weld. Get it as smooth as possible and then coat it with the U-413. Let it dry for a few while I prepared the glass with U401 followed by the U402. The primers come with cotton applicator daubers. (Its critical the glass surface is cleaned with alcohol free cleaner so the primers can etch the glass.)

Once all is cleaned and prepped, I'd lay a "dam" around the very edge of the windshield opening using the butyl. The reason I'd do this is twofold. 1: It looks like the original install and 2: It will keep the urethane (adhesive) from oozing into the interior. (Note: before the next step, try dry setting the shield. Lay the butyl down and check your height. Do not press down too hard as you may distort the butyl and make the shield difficult to remove.)

I'd apply the bead of urethane to the pinch-weld - some folks swear by applying it to the glass first, but if you're not experienced in installing, I'd apply it to the pinch-weld. Get a friend and carefully lower the glass into the opening. If you have large suction cups – use them. Try to touch down evenly. Once down, firmly press into place.

Finally, do not drive the car for 12 hours (for safety reasons as the urethane has not cured) Also, keep your windows rolled down as I’ve seen way to many leaks caused by car doors being slammed shut with the windows rolled up. The air pressure forces the glass out.

That’s it! Remember, this is my opinion of how I’d do it. I’m sure there will be someone who thinks their way is better…

PS: Most any brand will fit the hole, but I'd use LOF glass – the OE supplier for the first generation Camaro’s.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 00, 10:43 AM
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Jim
 
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Couldnt of said it any better, except that I wouldnt use the butyl tape. Ive spent close to 20 yrs. in the glass racket, and Dan pretty much layed it all out for ya, except for the actual install, and its really not that hard. For those of you wondering if the urethane is too strong, no.

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