Any put a richmond 5sp in a'69 - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 01, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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I'm thinkin' about replacing my M-21 with a Richmond 5sp,I don't think my tranny will hold up to the 383 stroker I'm building for my '69 with 4:10 gear. Any ideas or anybody already try this?

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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 01, 07:25 PM
BTC
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Dave, I have a richmond 5 sp in my 68. It fit easily. I moved the crossmember back a inch of so and had to shorten the driveshaft slightly. The shifter is farther back and to the left. I added a spacer to the shifter to move it right. Keeping the console is possible but tricky. You will have a problem with your gearing though. The 5 spd has a very low first gear and a 1: 1 final gear. You will want a rear end gear around 3.08. This will give you a first gear like you had a 4.5 rear end ratio but will let you cruise at high speed with a low rpm.

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68/Z28,35O LT1
RICHMOND 5 SP,
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 01, 08:35 AM
 
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I'd do a T-56 swap before a Richmond. The cost is almost the same, with tons of new bell housings available. The T-56 is also torque rated much higher than the Richmond. And if making a lot of power, the Richmond is missing crucial bearing support on the main shaft. Dont get me wrong, it is a good unit; I still run a 2.20 first Muncie and I run about 630 hp/580 ftlbs through it..... I believe it is all in the set up of the Trans.

Machanicals- parts live when they are closer geared...example: 3.42 to 4.10 ratio with a T-56, each part spreads the torque load much more evenly. (second) 3.08 with a Richmond, the diff takes more torque multiplication and abuse from the trans. You wearout one or the other....

Food for thought
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 01, 09:27 AM
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I've done two Richmond 5 speed conversions.
I've put my swap on my web page. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...m#Transmission

I can't vouch for the strength of the Richmond compared to the other trannys. It looked pretty good to me when I ordered it. But I don't want to come on here trying to reinforce that I made the "right" decision.

We didn't have to shorten the driveshaft of the 69 Z/28 we did. But it was close to needing it.
You do need the large shaft TH400 type yoke.
And you need a fine spline clutch disc.

The Richmond has gear ratios that are closer together than other 5 speeds like the Tremec, so you'll keep the engine in the power band better but have less top end in 5th (like over 160mph) when running a 3.08 compared to the tremec which is ovedrive in 5th.
Your driveshaft will be turning slower with the Richmond in 5th, compared to most other 5 speeds.
The 3.08 rear will have more pinion teeth engaged at any time compared to a lower gear set like 4.10. Might be less likely to break a tooth off the pinion gear.
Less wear on the diff because it's turning slower.

You might get away with keeping your low gears with a 5 speed that is overdrive, but first gear will be so low that you won't use it.

Check your rear before ordering new gears, many cars have a 3 series carrier that had a ring gear spacer plate added when lower gears were put in, and you can just remove the spacer when going to 3.08's.
Also, Richmond makes a special thin ring gear set for 3.08 ratio only, It's for use on a 4 series carrier. I've seen it, and it looks good.

I did some mods to allow the Hurst shifter to come up through the factory console.
Otherwise the stick will come up to the left and rear of the factory position.

Key to any transmission or rear end life is to allow for a good break in.
The gears (especially the ring and pinion) will make a lot of heat when breaking in and if you get on it too soon for a prolonged time, you can ruin the heat treat of the gear surfaces and soften them, shortening their life.
I've seen new rear ends get almost too hot to touch just from a half hour cruse around town.
The second half hour the temp was half what the first time was.
David

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 01, 03:56 PM
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One of the guys in my club runs a Richmond 5 speed with 3.55's in a 9in. He raves about it. His SB is fairly healthy too. Take care and good luck ~ John

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1968 RS, 355/4spd/12 blt w/3.55's.www.camarogenerations.com
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 01, 04:52 PM
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David Pozzi
 
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If anyone has any good or bad news on the Richmond's durability, please post, I'd like to hear it.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 01, 04:52 PM
 
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I have a Richmond 5 speed in my 79-Z with 3.73 gears and I love it .I kept on breaking the super t 10s cluster gears so I went and got a 5 speed.I tired of paying $300 in parts every time I broke one .Nothing broke yet and it was beat. The all the richmonds shift stiff including the 6 speeds I also have one.But I had to do some mods first . (1) the trany did shift good it was very stiff. I thougth the bell housing was off. Dialed the bellhousing in to .002 run out still did not shift good. Also tried different oils .Than I tore the 5 speed apart. Changed sliders and synchro in just 1-4 gears I put synchro and sliders out a muncie trans that was cycled I modified the ramps on the shifter detents where the balls slide in to the detents I made the ramp angles less steep so their was less pressure on the shifter when movin in and out of gear. You could maybe go with less spring on the detent balls. After all that the trans now shifts .And power shifts. Whats also nice the trans comes apart nice the cases split in half. I tried both shifters Hurst And Long I went with the long because it has a reverse lock out and the Hurst did not . I found out the hard way.Could not race the car with out a reverse lock out. The trans has about 5000 miles and no problems.Go with the Richmond

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