1969 motion - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 00, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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I have come across a person that said me has a 1969 baldwin motion 427 camaro. I need to know what to look for when i go look at it. He has told me the car is completely apart. I own a car restoration business and have 2 other 67 camaros but do not want to get ripped of with this deal. If someone can help with a little info and a fair price.

Thank you, Paul
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 00, 01:53 PM
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Get the VIN # and you can still contact Joel Rosen from Baldwin/Motion to verify the car is legit. They did engine swap cars and I'm not sure about COPO's.

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 00, 02:04 PM
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You can look for re-welded axle tubes and spring perches on the rear end. Also Motion normally mounted dual fuel pumps and a C/D ignition as well. There just isn't a good way to tell if it is legit.

You must do a thorough ownership search, talk to prior owners and then if all looks good, contact Joel Rosen. It might cost you $2000 or so to get an authenticity letter from him, but without real documentation it's merely a disassembled hot rodded non-original BB camaro and should be priced accordingly. If the seller is so sure it's legit, have him front Joel's fee.

One other thing, for it to have real value as a BM car, it must have been modified and sold as new through Baldwin Chev. not a used car that was hot rodded by Motion later in its life.

Let us know how it turns out.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 00, 02:56 PM
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I am in need of enlightenment. Perhaps the learned members of this organization can provide it.

What is the big deal with Baldwin-Motion cars?

Baldwin Chevrolet was just another dealer. Motion Performance was just another Speed Shop. Baldwin sends a car to Motion for clown paint and 'vette sidepipes and this becomes a Big Deal?

I don't get it.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 00, 05:26 PM
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Joel Rosen "Mr. Motion" was a drag racer. He ran a record holding A/MP 427 Camaro. His custom built street/strip Supercars were set up like his drag cars. A 1968 427 Motion Phase III Camaro would blow the doors off a stock 396 SS Camaro. The Motion Phase III Camaros were advertised as "the quickest and fastest street & strip Supercars in the country" They were outrageous and expensive dealer built Supercars that you could buy with a warrantee, GMAC financing, and guarantee to run a mid 11 sec quarter mile. If you wanted to go faster a modified L88 was also available. You could get the same thing from many of the other high performance dealers but they were not as bold as Motion with the wild graphics, full page ads, and the many articles in the East coast high performance car magazines. From 1970 to 1974 the Motion 454 cars dominated the Chevy Supercar market as many of the other high performance dealers stopped or reduced production. Motion sold custom $10,000.00 1970 Phase III Corvettes and even a Phase III 454 Vega that was advertised as a 9 sec. street/strip car until the government stopped Motion from selling in the U.S.A. The COPO 427 L72 and ZL1 cars have more historical significance since they were factory built but going by the prices on the Motion cars it looks like collectors will also pay high prices for the cars advertised as the "quickest and the fastest Supercar in the Country".
here is a clip from a 1968 magazine article
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?...132&p=33003587

[This message has been edited by JOE58 (edited 11-12-2000).]
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 00, 05:58 AM
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William, I wish you would direct me to "just another speed shop" like Motion Performance. I haven't found ANYONE who can perform a series of modifications to a car that will work together as a package. That is what Motion did. Joel Rosen took the knowledge he gained from racing and used it to build "race" cars that were sold to the public through a dealership, Baldwin Chevrolet.

The cars were heavily modified and relatively expensive. As a result few were built and even fewer survived. I think what sets these cars apart is the "more is better" mentality that went into building them.


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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 00, 02:20 PM
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Thanks guys.

There were a number of speed shops doing this sort of thing back then. I have a flyer from Motorsport Research showing their '69 Z/28 with modifications. I guess Motion was the best of the bunch. I recall that Rosen had some comments for MCR when they match-raced a '69 L-88 Corvette against a '66 427 Cobra.

The remains of a 69 Motion Camaro turned up around here last year. Paperwork, but not much car left.

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 00, 11:18 PM
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I have been collecting Motion Performance articles for many years and spoke with Joel a few times. Joel was one of the Speed Shop/garages that Chevy engineering used for testing and feedback on their racing parts. There are pictures of Joel talking with Zora Duntov and became friendly with him over the years. Motion had a very early L88 in a 1967 Camaro and had a ZL1 in a 1968 Camaro. Chevy Engineering monitored the racing shops to help with testing and redesigning of their racing engines.
William- Is that Motion Camaro still available? Can you email me with more info on it?


[This message has been edited by JOE58 (edited 11-14-2000).]
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 00, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all the info but I would realy like to know a ball park price on a 1969 baldwin motion camaro. if anyone can help please let me know. Thanks again, Paul
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 00, 03:45 AM
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Paul - The value of a Motion car depends on how much documentation the owner has. Is there any paperwork that shows that the car was purchased from Motion?
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 00, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
 
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Yes there is documentation on the car, I haven't seen it yet, the car has 700 miles on it and the owner has papers showing where it was raced. I the car worth 30,40,50,000???
I don't know my shelf. Please help me with a ball park price range.
Thanks again for all your help, Paul
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 00, 12:50 PM
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Paul - I sent you an e-mail
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 00, 01:00 PM
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I would guess that a true Motion car with paperwork might be worth $60-90K when restored. One needing the restoration should be worth $25-40K in my opinion. But that's my rough estimate. If COPO cars are selling for $40-$80 restored, a Motion car should fall in that range. Does everyone think that is a legitimate range? Other opinions would help.

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 00, 01:28 PM
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I heard about the Motion car through Ron at McHenry Classics. (815)363-7878
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 00, 05:34 AM
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Just an update for you, I saw a 1973 Motion Phase III car for sale in NY for $67,000. I'm sure most people would prefer the 69 Motion car over the 73 so it should be worth 60K+ when restored.
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