Best subframe restoration?? POR-15? - Team Camaro Tech
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View Poll Results: What do you guys think?
Sandblast and POR-15 18 22.22%
Wirewheel and POR-15 6 7.41%
Sandblast and OTHER 57 70.37%
Wirewheel and OTHER 1 1.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 05, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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Jim
 
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Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

This is what I'm working with.... originally I was going to sandblast everything and POR-15 it. Then I spoke to a guy that owns a Media-Blasting company and does a whole lot of metal reconditioning including whole cars. He told me POR-15 is the worst thing you can put on metal...
So again I am in search of a Do-It-Yourself process of getting a really good subframe outcome. I've been off camaros.net for a while so I've been out of the loop. I dont want to be stuck sayin, " I wish I never put POR15 on my frame" But obviously I have a lot of rust and need a solution...
The UV issue with POR-15 doesn't please me, I want to do it the right way from the very start.

I guess I should state that my intensions are to RESTORE the car to look as it did coming off the assemly line. So a correct looking color is important to me, but I also need it last a decade or two without rust coming back obviously.


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1968 Coupe, 327ci basketcase project
1986 Chevy Stepside, 305ci/300hp

Last edited by JIM68; Nov 14th, 05 at 09:33 PM.
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post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 05, 10:21 PM
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Brad
 
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

Sandblast , epoxy and your choice of black top coat. With the paints we have now if done right I would think that the frame should last longer than 20-30 yrs. with no problem. Por 15 etc. is mostly for parts that are hard to get to. Or a part thats heavly pitted and needs a thick coat to kinda fill in the dips and pits. Lets say a trunk, its not rusted through but shows heavy signs of pitting. Sand blast it down and lay a thick coat of Por-15. Just my 2 cents.
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post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 05, 10:23 PM
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

The car I'm restoring now, the subframe looked very similar to what you have, along with the rear diff. POR 15 is fine if you have to use it, in order to cover/block rust. Otherwise, its not necessary.

I blast everything. Use an etching primer on the bare metal, then a primer/sealer, then urethane paint, and baked. Some people love the powdercoat method. Thats perfectly fine, but I dont care for it myself.

Heres some links to pics.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0109.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0110.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0374.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0679.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0684.jpg

It pretty much goes for every single part that gets painted:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0439.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0443.jpg


dave

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post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 05, 05:19 AM
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

I'll ditto Dave's method. Exactly what I did to mine (minus the baking) and it turned out great!


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post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 05, 06:30 AM
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

I sandblasted the frame on my Chevelle 15 years ago. I primed it and used GM Re-Conditioning paint. Holding up perfectly fine. Not a chip nor speck of rust.

I had my Camaro subframe sandblasted & had the shop apply black expoy primer. I'll apply a topcoat to that and expect it to be fine as well.

So unless you plan on driving in the winter on icy, salted, gravel roads, everyday of the week, modern paints should be fine and look technically the best.

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post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 05, 06:46 AM
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

Jim....if you do decide to either wirebrush or sandblast the frame and coat it with POR-15, be sure you use their Metal Ready product on it beforehand. I did not do this and my frame was stripped to bare metal. Make a long story short...the frame is starting to re-rust through the POR-15. I did 2 coats of POR-15 and was as careful with that stuff as any human could hope to be. I basically treated it like I was handling Nitroglycrine.

When I called POR-15 to complain they asked me if I used the Metal Ready first. I said no and that I didn't know I had to...I thought it was optional. He said that I had to use the Metal Ready first before painting the part. They never specified this on their site. To their defense though, they did offer to replace the gallon of paint I purchased but I've decided to reblast the frame and go the route that Dave has done.

1968 Pro-Touring Camaro.
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post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 05, 02:20 PM
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

20 years ago I completely disassembled, sandblasted, prepped, and painted my subframe, inner fenders and front suspension parts with black DuPont Imeron with a flattener added. It looks as good today as it did when it was first painted. Imeron is old school but looks great and is as tough as nails.

Powder coating is also a good choice.

Steve

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post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 05, 02:51 PM
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamAirDave
The car I'm restoring now, the subframe looked very similar to what you have, along with the rear diff. POR 15 is fine if you have to use it, in order to cover/block rust. Otherwise, its not necessary.

I blast everything. Use an etching primer on the bare metal, then a primer/sealer, then urethane paint, and baked. Some people love the powdercoat method. Thats perfectly fine, but I dont care for it myself.

Heres some links to pics.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0109.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0110.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0374.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0679.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0684.jpg

It pretty much goes for every single part that gets painted:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0439.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Z/100_0443.jpg


dave

Hey what color black paint is that.. I started to just spray can mine with gloss black but it was way too glossy i think from the original color. I'm about at the process or buying some paint and supplies for finishing mine off.

Also I'd choose the sandblasting route, much better.. I had mine sandblasted, then used por-15.. gave it a horrible finish, sanded that down (or tried to) and thats about where I am now with it, trying to fix it. I may throw some sand in the sandblaster and redo it with daves method.
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post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 05, 03:02 PM
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

I have heard horror storries about media blasting and I have seen fantastic things about media blasting. I hear it depends on the amount of time spent in one area of a panel will cause heat and warp the metal. Before I sold my 69 RS project car I spoke to 3 different companies about media blasting the car and two of them said they would not blast the roof of the car due to past issues with them warping. Of course its possible and just like anything else, maybe they had no clue what they were doing? My neighbor had his entire 69 shell media blasted inside and out and it turned out fantastic!
I had the subframe on my 68 media blasted and I used the silver POR 15 and did not use the metal prep on it. I didnt like the silver after it dried and went with the por 15 black over top of it. Then sprayed over it with chassis black. Its been on for 5 years and looks just as good now as did when I put it on 5 years ago. I bet it lasts my lifetime as well.

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post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 05, 03:03 PM
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

There are a bunch of guys at team Chevelle that have had their frames galvanized. Anyone ever look into that?

Scott from NJ. Stay thirsty, my friends


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post #11 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 05, 03:29 PM
 
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JIM68
This is what I'm working with.... originally I was going to sandblast everything and POR-15 it. Then I spoke to a guy that owns a Media-Blasting company and does a whole lot of metal reconditioning including whole cars. He told me POR-15 is the worst thing you can put on metal...
So again I am in search of a Do-It-Yourself process of getting a really good subframe outcome. I've been off camaros.net for a while so I've been out of the loop. I dont want to be stuck sayin, " I wish I never put POR15 on my frame" But obviously I have a lot of rust and need a solution...
The UV issue with POR-15 doesn't please me, I want to do it the right way from the very start.

I guess I should state that my intensions are to RESTORE the car to look as it did coming off the assemly line. So a correct looking color is important to me, but I also need it last a decade or two without rust coming back obviously.


SUPERSIZE
powder coat is the answer for correct color & longevity. Mine looks great.
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post #12 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 05, 04:36 PM
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

powder coat is the awnser, if you can afford it. It aint gonna be cheap to have the sub prepped properly for powder and coated. I have had great results with POR15. Prepped per the manufactures requirements you shouldnt have a problem. POR really likes a toothy surface but if sandblasted you should Metal prep/rinse/2-coats thin/ cure/ scuff and coat with chassis black.




I did my chassis and very happy with the results. Rich

Last edited by 67ragtp; Nov 15th, 05 at 04:48 PM.
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post #13 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 05, 08:17 PM
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

I recommend blasting with 70 grit aluminum oxide media. You would have to be pretty inattentive to damage a frame while blasting. It is blasting sheet metal where folks warp and eat up panels. There are too many voids around the welds to reach with a wire wheel.

Then prep with PPG's metal prep system (DX579 and DX520) and spray DP90LF epoxy, two coats. Top coat with two more coats of Concept urethane DCC9300 with DX685 flattener added to set the gloss level you want.

Or send it to power coat which is more durable but less repairable.

I would not use POR15 on anything.
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post #14 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 05, 08:57 PM
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

You say you want it to look like it came off the assembly line. Once you clean it up or sandblast it, you will have pock marks etc. The only way to get them out is filler. Theres lots of ways to do it, this is just one of many.

Sandblast
36 grit on pock marks and gouges
body filler
re sand 180 grit on pock mark and gouge area
two good coats of z-chrome sprayable body filler over everything
sand with 180 grit
resand with red scotchbrite, works better in tight areas
two coats of epoxy primer

z-chrome is a rust inhibitor and sealer and it sands decent

Use a siphon feed gun, you can't get a hvlp in close enough, also use the cardboard out of a roll of paper towels to spray through on real hard areas

I used ppg epoxy primer and leave it at that, if you want it to shine a little you can take a california duster to it.

I hang the frame about four feet high to spray it, so you can duck under it, also I have a jig to support from the inside of the frame so nothing touches the outside.

The one on my website has set over a year, from a heated shop to a ventilated garage without any heat, so it does good at 20 below or out in the heat of the day.

If you scratch it or nick it, you can touch it up with a cheap air brush and you will never see it.

But this is just one of many ways, it takes a while to do one, but theres probably an easier way, but if you want it right it's going to take filler.

Lay the epoxy on pretty wet, and a good sized nozzle to spray the z-chrome
good luck

Rob
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post #15 of 64 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 05, 09:14 PM
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Re: Best subframe restoration?? POR-15?

Sandblast then either powdercoat or epoxy prime followed by flattened catalyzed enamel or urethane. I wouldn't use POR 15. Heres mine before and after. I sandblasted it myself and I went with powdercoat. It cost about the same to powdercoat as it would have to buy good paint and primer. Plus i still would have had to spend the time painting it.



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