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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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Joe
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Staten Island NY (or so they call it outside my garage)
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Cam selection help

Many of you helped me on this post where I was whining about my engineís performance:

https://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57897

The consensus seemed to be smaller cam or higher stall/gears.

Well, long story short, I wiped a lobe on the cam Ė so itís a new cam.

I am considering the following (sticking with comp):

XE268H int: 224 @ .050/.477 exh: 230 @ .050/.480, 110 CL
270H int&exh 224 @ .050/.470, 110 CL
275DEH int: 219 @ .050/.462 exh: 229 @ .050/.482, 110CL
268H int&exh 218 @ .050/.454, 110 CL

Here is my combo again:

67 RS ragtop
355 ci
Doublehump Heads, 2.02, stock ports, dual springs, PR guides
Flat top pistons
RPM air gap
670 avenger
1 5/8 headers
MSD 6AL, Pertronix Dist
TH350, shift kit, 2500 stall
8.5 10bolt, 3.42 gears, traction bars, 26 Ĺ BFGs

I like the XE but am reading in various posts that itís noisy. Your suggestions, please? Thanks again for the help.
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 11:12 AM
 
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Smile Re: Cam selection help

Imho, I would use either the CC 268HE or 270 Magnum, but I tend to be of the older school!

PLus, If it was mine, I would install a solid lifter cam like these two!!

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 11:28 AM
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Ron
 
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Re: Cam selection help

My vote is for the XE 268!

69 Camaro
491/AFR 315'S/Straub hyd roller
TH400/GV OD
9" 3.50
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 11:37 AM
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Don
 
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Re: Cam selection help

done this too many times,, to many stop and starts dont allow lube to hit cam on these partially driven cars. I would go roller in what ever version you wish... I know the retro roller is more $$ but time and work and cams are money down the road...I installed mine two years ago,,, no problems and have driven some 15k with it to shows,,, thats my 2 cents.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 01:18 PM
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Re: Cam selection help

I agree that a mild solid roller can actually run for a very long time on the street. If you went real aggressive, Id be frequently checking to make sure the lifters are staying together as well as valve spring pressure is holding up, but for the most part, a roller camshaft that would be a good fit in this engine isnt going to be so radical that it will beat up your valvetrain. Ive known many to go much more than 15,000 miles on a solid roller with no issues. But that can be expensive, so if thats not up your alley, Id consider a lunati voodoor 268. It is the largest camshaft Id consider with your current setup before it starts to get a little iffy, and you could go smaller with the voodoo 262 if you wanted as long as your compression isnt too high. I dont think Id run the 262 with more than 9.5:1 comp with pump gas in mind, and you can definitely have more than that, but it depends on what the chambers actually check out to be, the valve releifs in the pistons, gasket thickness and deck height..... you may not have more than that depending on all of those things. Typically, a 64cc chamber and flat tops in a 355 with a zero deck will produce 10:1 comp or a hair over and thats 268 territory.
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 01:29 PM
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Don
 
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Re: Cam selection help

You are correct on $$ spent for roller... After burning two flat tappets in 5 years due to all the stop and go stuff to shows etc,,, I pulled my CC 268 which did well before the dist gear wear problem,,, and put the HR 282 in with 1.40 springs ... 282 was not agressive , 510/510 but I could tell they were weaker . I went to the 1.530 to keep them alive longer. Also went to the AFR 195 at the same time... A 268 is a very good choice .

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Joe
 
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Re: Cam selection help

Just looked at roller cams at Summit. Unfortunately, not an $$$ option at this time.

Keep migrating to the XE268 since it's inbetween the Magnum 280H i had and the 270H i am considering.

From the specs, both the 270H and XE268 are close in operating range, giving an edge to the 268 on the low end.

Advantages/disadvantages between these two?
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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 02:50 PM
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Re: Cam selection help

Differance between two I see is the dual pattern on the XE 268 , that Extreme Energy, take advantage of latest improvement on intake and exhaust lobes. The 270H and 280H is a single pattern cam...what u see is what u get... little rougher . Kinda new school on the 268... Like color spectrums,, red and blue which is old school. New school are all the colors inbetween each color to make everyone happy. But you are getting larger when you talk 280 H. Thats a way from 268 as 270 is lot like 268, Go to Comps web site for better explaination.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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Joe
 
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Re: Cam selection help

Sorry it wasn't clear. The 280H was the cam I wiped. It was great once it got to 3500+ rpm but was sluggish off the line with the 2500 stall/3.42 gear setup. I was able to tune most of it out but want to start with something more appropiate for it's use - mostly street driven with 3 to 4 non-competative visits to the track a year, just for fun.

My concern with the XE is all the posts on this site refering to valvetrain noise and inherent ticking. Wiping a lobe on the 280H has got me nervous, as it started with a low tick, and prefer not to hear my cam.
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 03:35 PM
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Re: Cam selection help

I can see why the 280 was sluggish off line with your set up . So you want to come back to a XE268,, If its a hyd and you have all valves adjusted correctly,, I dont see why there should be any noise... I have run this cam with stock good lifters and Rhodes and the only one that ticked when started,, was the Rhodes,, and that what they do until rpm is increased..but motor was very streetable. I ran a cheapo Summit 270 cam and lifter and had no problem until lobe decided to take a hike.. but it made no noise. But I was showing the car here and there,, these stops and starts are killers.
Pick your cam , use good lifters, not from china, and moly coat very well,, start it up first time and run 15 or minutes at 2000 and readjust valves,, You must break these things in correctly or you will have problems later on.
On show cars that start , drive 2 blocks and show then the same to get on trailer ,,, I recommend using roller ...as these engines never get warmed or lubed up well . You can complain about the cost but when you think of it , how much money do you have in the car already.
You must understand the metallurgy behind the cams and if you use cheap stuff,, you will get a bad apple in the bunch once in a while ...and I am referring to lifters. Read this article about the XE268, tough cheap mule
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1704919130

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 05:28 PM
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Re: Cam selection help

fyi... i used a 270H, with 1.6 rockers, on a 9.5:1 327 w/ dart heads, 3.08 gear, M20, prf rpm.

It idles at 750 rpm, with 12" of vacuam. ran it on the road for the first time today, it runs good, but not that different than the stock 327-275 cam. Haven't had it over 4500 rpm yet, tho. Lotsa low end.





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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 05:34 PM
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Re: Cam selection help

Bet a 3:70 or 4 series gear would make that motor fly..You got one of the best motors..

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 05:42 PM
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Re: Cam selection help

As far as the stop and go driving beating up newer school hydro camshafts, it is a truth, just like stop and go driving beats up everything....including the cam. Thats one of the reasons the voodoo cams peak my interest. First of all, we all know about peak horsepower numbers, and say we compare two cars. Both with the same drivetrain and very similar motors with only a couple slight differences to change things around. Motor A makes 10 more peak horsepower than motor B, but motor B has higher AVERAGE horsepower and torque over the whole curve. Motor B almost always wins cause its got more power the whole time despite lacking 10 peak horsepower(which isnt all that important cause you only hit peak once).

Anyways, thinking of that here is the comparison between the cam. The XE cams have very modern cam lobes with aggressive opening and closing ramps and the valve is accelerated very quickly in a short period of time(they are basically hydro cams posing as solids as best they can). This I believe is one of the big reasons people have all the trouble they do with comp cams cause I think they are a little too aggressive for a hydraulic profile and are very sensitive to even slightly improper break-in and adverse conditions. The voodoo cams have very modern lobes as well, but they are unsymmetrical with softer closing ramps than opening ramps. That makes for a quieter and easier operating valvetrain. This is the main reason comp cams XE cams are very loud cause they basically slam the valve shut...just like a solid cam. Also, at peak acceleration, the voodoo cams still have less peak valve accelearation....but more average acceleration. So, at no point does a voodoo lobe accelerate the valve as fast as an XE cam, but it still has more area under the curve cause it has more average acceleration. Meaning, at its most aggressive point its still easier on a lobe than a comp cam XE cam, but still has the potential to move tons of air.

Anywho....the voodoo camshafts will be very competitive with the XE cams, but they are a little more forgiving and dont beat themselves or the valvetrain up quite as much and thats nice for a street engine cause you get all of the benefits of a modern lobe with a little more of a safety margin. In case you are wondering where I get this info, I didnt make it up. its from Harold Brookshire. He was the master cam grinder at comp cams before he left there to work the master grinder/designer at lunati and designed the voodoo camshaft to compete with the XE cams. So far, he has convinced tons of people over at team chevelle to try em out, and I wasnt sure what to think of these camshafts for sure until real enthusiasts like you and I started posting on there about how good their results have been with Harolds new voodoo cams.

Finally, the XE or Voodoo 268 camshaft is a very great match for your engine and either one will put a smile on your face. This is just a little more in depth comparison than what you will see in the catalogs or whatever.
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 05:57 PM
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Re: Cam selection help

Will have to try one on next build,, Never heard of voodoo but guess they go under than name? Or Lunati? Thanks for passing that on..

whatdayaknow,,, I found them ,,, Lucky me .. there are right here in my local area,,ScogginDickey.. thanks

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 05, 06:05 PM
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Re: Cam selection help

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdld17
Bet a 3:70 or 4 series gear would make that motor fly..You got one of the best motors..
I'm thinking about a lil more gear, maybe something around 3.30-3.55... dunno, I drive it a lot, and right now it's at 2600 rpm at 60. An overdrive 5 speed would be nice, but way out of my budget.

That 327 runs strong...





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