The Hugger69 goes ZL-1! - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 16, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

Hi guys,
During the 10 years that I now have had my Camaro it has gone thru a lot of different shapes, not much has changed every time but something.
I've also tried to walk on the thin line between what was original to the car and adding some mild customizations...I want the car to behave well and still look as it could have done in the 60_ or 70:ies! 8)
Here is a kind of resume and examples of what Ive done with the car so far.


This is how it looked in the eBay ad 10 years ago, taken from its origin in Waterloo, Illinois:




It was a descent restoration but much were loose due to a fast selling procedure. The wheels had wrong backspace and were made for a Corvette, therefore it was equipped with hi-jackers! First thing was to get rid of the ugly jackers, swap the wheels to 18" American Eagle and lots of other corrections...


After that I mounted a Hotchkis sport leaf kit and adjusted the exhaust:


...the engine bay before and after minor adjustments:



I got tired of the bling-bling and the wheels set up went to an original look with Firestone Wide Ovals:


I changed the grill color to correct Argent silver:


Done some touch up for the interior as well....before:


...and after:


Then it was time for the larger bumper guards. I think this has been on the car as an option from the beginning...it seemed that way in the front at least. I also widened the rear rims so they now are 14x7" and the front is 14x6. Were lucky to find some NOS rear tires with the dimension H70-14!


The latest, so far, set of wheels are these almost period correct American Racing S200, though these are 17" and with custom built backspace for The Hugger. Its great to have another set of wheels to alternate with for the steel wheels, which I always will keep!

The next level in my life with a 69 Camaro - the engine swap!

I've always loved the real deal COPO 9560 and it has certainly had an affect on me how I've putted the car together so far...I certainly don't have the money to buy a genuine 9560 so the second best for me is to build my own ZL-1 engine and put in The Hugger!
This project doesn't have a specific deadline so I'm going to update this thread whenever something new has happened and when I've the time, and money, necessary to continue the swap.

The background data on the car is rather interesting because The Hugger is a original X44 car and also the VIN is close to the VIN that the 69 original COPO 9560 had......so who knows?
It already has a 12 bolt Chevy rear with 4.10 gear, front disc brakes and the steel wheels with dog dish caps.
We will also try to keep the TH350, the cooler, front springs etc to keep the cost down but still get a functional car!?

Just to clarify, were not going to build a perfect COPO clone here but as close as we can with the given conditions! Fell free to comment and help us during these project, I know you guys have tons of information of how this should be made as good as possible and I'm all ears!

....to be continued. Welcome!

_________________________________________________
Regards from Hakan in Sweden.
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built

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post #2 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 16, 08:07 AM
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

Wow, your car looks great...nice to see the pics from the time of purchase to current day. All your touches were well done and subtle enough that nothing really stands out too much. I really like the stance versus stock ride height. Can't wait to see the next evolution of your ride, well done so far

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1970 Z28 (Sold)
1970 RS Z28 Camaro (Green)



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post #3 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 16, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

Thanx, Sonny!
I really appreciate your response!

_________________________________________________
Regards from Hakan in Sweden.
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built

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post #4 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 16, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

Thanx, Sonny!
I really appreciate your response!
The stance is perfect right now and I hope it will keep that way after the future engine swap.....

_________________________________________________
Regards from Hakan in Sweden.
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built

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post #5 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 16, 08:27 PM
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

I just switched from an iron 9561 to a ZL-1 9560, it is expensive. The block can be had from summit for $5,000, mine came in 2 days.

Heads- original 074 or modern alluminum heads?

Intake - original 198's are $500- $1,000, 163 intakes are $300

Holley 850dp, real 4296 is $600 - $2,000, Holley 4781 is $500

Forged crank is $800

Camshaft? You decide

What compression?

69 Copo 9560 ZL-1 automatic [email protected], 1.95 on f70-14 polyglas F.AS.T. Race June 2016
69 Copo 9560 ZL-1 4spd [email protected] 1.93 60ft on F70/14
PSMCDR 2014
71LS6 vette [email protected] PSMCDR 2012 SOLD
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post #6 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 16, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971ls6 View Post
I just switched from an iron 9561 to a ZL-1 9560, it is expensive. The block can be had from summit for $5,000, mine came in 2 days.

Heads- original 074 or modern alluminum heads?

Intake - original 198's are $500- $1,000, 163 intakes are $300

Holley 850dp, real 4296 is $600 - $2,000, Holley 4781 is $500

Forged crank is $800

Camshaft? You decide

What compression?
Thanx Morgan!
I have already made some descisions that I will show you further on during the updates!
I hope to get some good and interesting advices during this project!

_________________________________________________
Regards from Hakan in Sweden.
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built

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post #7 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 18th, 16, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

If you're going to build this kind of high end engine you have to start from the ground and what's more suitable then the block?
As you guys already know the real deal ZL-1 block from 1969 to the 70:ies cost a lot of big money so that's out of the question, for me at least.... :
Then we heard that Chevrolet Racing Parts, you can read more here The Zl-1 Engine's Rebirth - Big Block Chevy - Super Chevy Magazine, had started to make new ZL-1 blocks from the old original tooling! Now things starting to get interesting........

We did a scan of eBay and after a while we found a brand new 12370850, which is new part number from Chevrolet, to the right price and took it home to Sweden:







There is a serial number with the new block but I'm not sure how to value that? Does anybody know how many of this new casting Chevrolet have made so far?


Great detailing:


Far as we know these new castings have the same casting number as the original 1969 blocks from Winters Foundry, #3946053!
We haven't had the block out of the wooden box yet to confirm this.....we are waiting for the rest of engine parts before anything happens....

This is how Chevrolet describes the block themselves:
The Chevrolet ZL1 Aluminum Big Block is back and better than ever. This block was first introduced in the 1969 Corvette and Camaro. It was one of the rarest production engines ever built. Now the improved version is available. This block is based on the original tooling. The new casting is made from 356-T6M aluminum alloy and has a 4.118" cast iron liner that can be bored to 4.300". The bottom end has also been improved with new four-bolt splayed steel main caps, with dowel pins to locate and hold the caps in place. This block includes screw-in freeze plugs with o-ring seals, and a two-piece rear seal. The new block has a provision for both dry sump or regular oil pump systems and mechanical fuel pump. All GM performance cylinder heads will fit this block and it only weighs 110 lbs. The maximum stroke is 4.375".

....so now it's just to find the rest of the missing parts! ;D

_________________________________________________
Regards from Hakan in Sweden.
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built

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post #8 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 18th, 16, 03:42 AM
 
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

Love the build, Love the orange wheels too ! Looks good, I could only imagine seeing one to these cruising around in Europe! I would be in Awe! Good luck with the engine parts! Do you have power goals or is more just about having the ZL-1 Engine in there?

Twin Turbo Build


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post #9 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 18th, 16, 05:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rfalker1 View Post
Love the build, Love the orange wheels too ! Looks good, I could only imagine seeing one to these cruising around in Europe! I would be in Awe! Good luck with the engine parts! Do you have power goals or is more just about having the ZL-1 Engine in there?
Thanx, man!
Since I don't have any history on my car the goal is just to go with the coolest engine you could have in 1969! As I start with an original X44 with a V8 its not so far from being a real deal ZL-1 COPO....just some minor details as VIN and a history!

Ive started to collect some, in my opinion, cool engine parts and not just standard ZL-1 parts for two reasons, its cheaper and will give this engine some touch of an even meaner ZL-1 than standard! Im not in it for more power, our version of this ZL-1 will have power that will be more than enough, I promise!


Stay tuned for more updates soon!

_________________________________________________
Regards from Hakan in Sweden.
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built

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post #10 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 20th, 16, 01:34 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

Well, now we have a block but it takes a couple of things more to get a motor running...a whole lot of things actually
The carb, Holley 750 CFM, and the cowl air cleaner will be moved from the current 355, they not that bad for a ZL-1 either I guess...?

..but an intake manifold for BB has to added to the new-parts-list! The original intake for the ZL-1 is the #3933198 as we understand and they are not hard to find but rather expensive, cause sellers tend to raise the price as soon as the word "COPO" or "ZL-1" is mentioned, so we had something else in mind when we started do discuss the motor...

After a while we found exactly what we were lookin for, the Edelbrock C427X. As we understand it was one of the best hi performance intakes during the 60-70:ies and were commonly used by a couple of racing team including Baldwin Motion. A hot rod version of a ZL-1 isn't bad either and if we got the that intake to a good price...hey! 8)

A couple of weeks later searching on Ebay we suddenly found that nice unrestored and untouched piece, no Helicoils and stuff, that we wanted and for the neat price of $ 110!




Its not that brownish as it looks in the pic but just dirty and old....The intake is NOT, I repeat NOT, going to be sand blasted and painted silver, just cleaned in a proper alu-friendly way and then we have to see if it need more TLC! :-*
We want to keep that old school look in the engine bay....

_________________________________________________
Regards from Hakan in Sweden.
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built

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post #11 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 20th, 16, 08:37 AM
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

That car is beautiful! I love the steel wheels on it!
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post #12 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 20th, 16, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RideTech_Ryan View Post
That car is beautiful! I love the steel wheels on it!
Thanx, Ryan!
I love them too, but it's nice to change between the two setups...gives the car two totally different appearances!

_________________________________________________
Regards from Hakan in Sweden.
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built

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post #13 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 20th, 16, 07:14 PM
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

Now that you have the block, you also have with the help of a saw, two framed ZL-1 pictures, they look great on the wall and keep reminding you how expensive that picture is!

My understanding is the blue freeze plugs were used to start the program, the current ones are black, I will look for my series number as well. Each block is numbered along with the Swartz machine. Swartz is located 3 miles from my office, that shop is the preferred choice for the machining process and does all of these blocks. This program comes through the racing division of gm, not gm performance, think the nascar boys and nhra. before I bought my block, I called Swartz and they gave me the gm guy that heads it up. It took 2 weeks for a return call, but he basically told me that this thing comes ready for a final hone, in fact that is all we did. My anal retentive builder verified everything and was impressed with the tolerances and even to what end of the tolerance you want it. The lifter bores look like chrome

The new block weights 20lbs more than the original

The ZL-1 and the L88 vettes were the only gm cars to have ever left the factory with a double pumper and only cars to run anything bigger then the 780 3310-1.

If you want, I could have trend duplicate my pistons for you if you want? I went with 11 1/2 compression, as I drive mine. With all of the alluminum in the beer can motor, it can take some compression. I have never seen a motor heat up and cool down so fast in my life, especially cooling down. The lash grows .012 from cold to hot, .006 feeler gauges are pretty flimsy when setting them cold.

The 163 intake is nearly identical and some say the same as the 198 except the divider is in the 163. The original 4296 Holley 850dp has distribution tabs on 2 of the boosters and came stagger jetted to compensate for the intake distribution issues, I went to the dyno with an 850dp stagger jetted like gm built it, I found a real one 2 weeks later and have it on the car now.
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69 Copo 9560 ZL-1 automatic [email protected], 1.95 on f70-14 polyglas F.AS.T. Race June 2016
69 Copo 9560 ZL-1 4spd [email protected] 1.93 60ft on F70/14
PSMCDR 2014
71LS6 vette [email protected] PSMCDR 2012 SOLD
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post #14 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 16, 01:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

Great info there, Morgan, many thanx!

I really appreciate all the info I can get during this project....and as I wrote earlier I don't have a time frame so parts and info keeps coming during time!

Ill show the parts I already have in coming posts!

_________________________________________________
Regards from Hakan in Sweden.
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built

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post #15 of 250 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 16, 02:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hugger69 goes ZL-1!

Connecting rods is a must and this is what we found at eBay:


These rods are one the best that GM made and was made for high performance engines such as the L88, ZL1 and LS7. They are full floating dot rods, 7/16 bolt, magnafluxed and shot peened. I think that the name "dot rod" is connected to the surface treatment rather than dimple seen in the small end!

Heres a close-up of the small end where you can see the full floating. The characteristic dimple is also seen here.


I also got some info on the net regarding these rods:
Chevy high performance dot rod with 7/16-inch rod bolts is still a good choice for engines up to about 700 hp. There were three versions of these rods: one with 3/8-inch rod bolts and pressed pins (1965 1969), one with 7/16- inch rod bolts and pressed pins (LS-6 and LS-7), and a version with 7/16-inch boron rod bolts and full-floating pins, which was used in Chevys killer big-blocks, like the L88 and ZL-1.

...it also a rumor that's says that Smokey Yunick is the brain behind the "dot rods", true or not?!

_________________________________________________
Regards from Hakan in Sweden.
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built

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