460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 12, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

You got it....just another way of asking for cam recommendations, which is beat to death on every hot rod forum. What I can't seem to get is the relationship of duration to lift. Some cams will have duration in the 300s but low .500s in lift. Others will have duration (advertised) in the upper 200s but over .600 of lift. If someone had a killer article on how to pick a cam, I'd sure like to read it. Otherwise, some thoughts/recommendations would be appreciated. Here are the specs:
460 BBC with 9.5:1 comp
781 iron heads with light porting and 2.19/1.88 valves
Tunnel ram
MSD ignition
4 speed and 3.73s in a 4,000 lbs pro-street truck.
Not interested in the Thumper cams but, like many, want it to hammer out the back. Will not be racing. What is the edge I can push without going over on this combo? Thanks!


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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 12, 08:34 AM
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

Best thing would be to call one of the cam companies with your specs and tell them what you want.

Seems like what you are building is a lower end rpm big block. Tunnel ram will look OK, but what you really want is a dual plain lower profile intake.

Here are a couple of things to read that might help.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...s/viewall.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...aft_profiling/

68 Camaro SS 396 - 468 BBC now, M21, 12 bolt 3.73 coded housing but w/ 3.31 gears.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 12, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

I realize the tunnel ram thing. It actually completed the pro-street "shop truck" look I was going for with the 18.5s in the back. It also runs pretty good with the stock 460 it's on now. I spent a lot of time tuning the carbs to react well with the large plenum. A dual plane would be ideal but it would leave me with a rather large hole in my hood! lol The 4 speed and gears make the tunnel ram more forgiving. Tunnel rams being horrible on the street is just a myth too. They can be tuned to work quite well if you spend some time on the carbs.



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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 12, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

Are ya kidding me? Just because it's a truck?


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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 12, 10:32 AM
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubs68camaro View Post
Are ya kidding me? Just because it's a truck?
Jee, why did someone take the time to organize the sites forums into groups and give forums names and descriptions? Why do some folks act like someone spit on them when a post or thread gets moved?

...Dennis

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 12, 11:13 AM
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

Cool truck! I would call a cam mfg for a recommendation. The reason you don't see a GOOD cam article is there are too many variables with each combo, so the articles end up generic and not real useful.

Give Bullet a call, or Crower or even ISKY.

Now I also have to wonder why this is not in the perfromance section, it will get way more viewings and whats the difference if it's in a truck or not, a motor is a motor IMO. But of course I'm not running thuis site I guess.....

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 12, 12:05 PM
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

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Originally Posted by 68rs406 View Post
Now I also have to wonder why this is not in the perfromance section, it will get way more viewings and whats the difference if it's in a truck or not, a motor is a motor IMO. But of course I'm not running thuis site I guess.....
It's a great truck but this is a Camaro forum and the Performance section happens to be under the heading "All Generations"...

I love all these old cars not just Camaros but based on the sites name and the way it has been organized from it's inception I don't get why some can't accept the site for what it is? You don't see any posts about Mustangs on the CRG site and you don't see posts about Model T's on Latteral G and if you open up any Camaro resource and restoration book you won't see info about anything but Camaros....

Having an appreciation for all cars not just 1st gens the site has branched out and arranged it's forums under groups with teh primary focus on 1st gens then another group for gen specific and a big section covering "all generations" and finally a forum for non-Camaro tech. I think that reaches out to as broad a base as possible with concideration to just about anyone that visits the site!

As for where something is posted making it more visable, that is flawed thinking! There are 2 searches "New Posts & "Todays Posts" that display the threads all jumbled together and stats show more participants use them than go from forum to forum. In fact going to the sites home page also displays a short version of "Todays Posts". What folks see first is what is most active or newly posted.

Maybe this thread should be in "site discussion" since folks seem to want to talk about the site more than cams and trucks. I'm just answering the questions being asked...

...Dennis

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 12, 01:49 PM
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

It's your call Dennis and I can live with that, no big deal.
But if he never mentioned the truck it could have been a motor for his Camaro. It's not like he was asking how to service the truck arm suspension or front end.
Thats all I'm saying. And there is no way you can deny certain forums get more traffic, unless I'm mistaken.

Just my .02

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 12, 05:20 PM
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

Were the heads also set up for more lift? I think stock 781's are maxed out at around 0.550" and if you run close to that the seat pressure gets pretty low on the seat which isn't good with a roller, but that can be remedied. Also being limited to that amount of lift kinda offsets the benefits of running a roller where you can get aggressive with it.

Anyway, at 9.5 compression with the tunnel ram I'd think it would start to get finicky under 2500 RPM once you got up around 290 advertised. If you want the sound then extra exhaust duration will do it, but the Thumpr cams are overkill just for the noise and will cost you torque. I'd think something around a 282-286 advertised similar to the XR grinds would make some noise and good power. You're back to having to verify your lift with those though.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 12, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

Sorry Dennis! Along with my 68 and 74 Camaros, I've gotten killer advise from this forum for the truck. I do understand though.

The heads haven't been set up yet. There will be close attention spent on valvetrain geometry. Get this......Lunati tech recommended the voodoo hyd roller with a split 282/290 duration and .600 lift both on a 110 LSA. I figured the 110 would be right but was surprised at the .600 lift since so many of the other manufacturers are in the low to mid .500s for that duration. He said no problem and lunati seems to have a good reputation.


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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 12, 07:57 PM
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

dubs, that is probably the coolest vehicle I have seen in a long time, and I never liked the fat tire look. Man that thing is KILLER!!!

I've got a 72 swb Chevy c-10, man I need to tub that sucker like yours!

Take sean's advice, call the guys at Bullet Cams....ask for John or James, they can fix ya right up.

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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 12, 08:13 PM
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

Since it's a big block with 1.7 rockers, the cam lobe isn't that agressive.....same as a 0.530" cam for a small block.....

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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Last edited by Steiner; Sep 17th, 12 at 08:36 PM.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 18th, 12, 04:33 AM
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=591&sb=2

I ran this sweet grind in my 502/6 speed @ 4000 lbs, and it would go way past 6000 rpms, and more importantly not buck and surge at low speeds. I pulled around 17-18" of vac with it. This would work great for you so long as your heads can handle the lift.

This is a stepnose cam - you need a Gen6 timing set and your good to go.

VINCE
69 CHEVELLE SS
502 EFI/[224/228 HR]/T56/3.90
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 18th, 12, 05:40 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 460: Need duration and lift recommendations for hyd roller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanor's Nemesis View Post
dubs, that is probably the coolest vehicle I have seen in a long time, and I never liked the fat tire look. Man that thing is KILLER!!!

I've got a 72 swb Chevy c-10, man I need to tub that sucker like yours!

Take sean's advice, call the guys at Bullet Cams....ask for John or James, they can fix ya right up.
So easy to do if you have a coil rear end. I just took 2 tubs and spliced them together. I didn't want the round CE tube look. Wanted it to look factory. Keep in mind I want the look to be unfinished for now which is why the tubs are just tacked in. It's a lot of fun and really turns heads for being an apparent turd on steriods.




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