Starter problem - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 10, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
Alan
 
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Wink Starter problem

Have a problem that i have not figured out yet. 1967 Camaro bought with crate 350, turbo 350, has HEI. Have had car over a year now, seemed starter was going out, did not know how old it was so changed out starter,selinoid. seemed to work good again but than started having starter problems again. Sometimes it would start, sometimes had to use screw driver, if it "bumped" over just a little it usually would start up. Starting to use screwdriver more often so installed another starter,selinoid. Same thing, started good than started having to use screw driver to bump over a little. Today did not seem to want to bump over or start. When installing last starter was looking at wiring figuring that possibly old wires might be at least part of problem, they seem o.k. but did notice another small [yellow] wire with eyelet tucked back from wiring. Did not remember this wire when removed starter. Thought maybe because of HEI did not need???? Without this wire on starter did work before. So..........does it need this wire? Only 2 wires on starter now, small wire and new, bigger cable going to battery. Could it be ignition switch? Do not think it is neutral safety switch, but could it be? Wife told father in law who is a retired mechanic and he mentioned something about nose of starters, making sure it was for auto. etc. I am kind of guessed out, sorry so long but wanted to give as much detail as possible. Am not driving it right now because do not want to get stranded! Thanks for any help or insight you can give.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 10, 10:24 AM
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Re: starter problem

Yellow is for points ignition power source during the start command to supply a full 12 volts during the start function. Since HEI, wire is not needed, hence the reason it is tied back. Keep it there, you might be using the point dist for later in life ign troubleshooting.

Purple wire on solenoid is from the neutral safety switch on the gear shifter, Park/neutral selected, starter gets power.

If starter does not turn over with a screwdriver across the solenoid, you might need to clean both ends of the battery cables and the surface they rest against. Also, you might need to move the negative cable connection on the manifold to the block for a better path for current flow. Are battery cables of sufficient wire gauge? I try not to go less than 1/0 AWG.

The other condition for no 'screwdriver' starting is a low charged battery.
Is belt tight?
Is battery charging voltage at the posts 13.8 volts after running at 2000-2500 rpm for 10 minutes with no accessories on?

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 10, 10:43 AM
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Re: starter problem

I think he is saying it will start with the screwdriver.

I had a similar problem where every thing was fine, then suddenly I would have a "no crank" condition. The screwdriver would start it every time. For me it turned out to be the bulkhead electrical connector on the back of the fuse panel, inside the engine compartment. The connectors had become coroded. I pulled it apart, cleaned all the connectors, applied some dielectric grease, and put it back together. I haven't had the problem since.

ERIC
67 Convertible, 350CID, TKO600RR, 3.73 Eaton Posi
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 10, 10:46 AM
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Re: starter problem

Don't 67s still need the yellow wire, with a diode in line? I will search here, but I recall the 67 being unique in this way.

Eric
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 10, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
Alan
 
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Re: starter problem

Thanks for info about extra wire, will leave it because not to crazy about HEI, want to go to MSD dist. soon. Cables from battery are new, one going to starter is bigger than stock with new ends. Ground was always from battery bolted to front of block, went back to stock size after installing last starter. Battery is good and belt is tight, when it does fire up by key it starts right up even when cold. Read somewhere that gold was better conducter than copper, was at Sky Lab the other month and found 24 kt. gold plated battery ends made in Germany so bought them to try. Battery was in car when i bought it and its side post [do not like] put 24 kt gold extenders on side post to run regular size battery clamps [also 24 gold plated] they are tight. When put stock size battery ground back on, it had regular side mount clamp. No gauges yet on car so do not know amps. thanks for answers.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 10, 10:53 AM
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Re: starter problem

See post #4 this thread: https://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...yellow+starter

Need to check and see if the wire feeding the starter from the key is supplying 12 with the key turned to "start".

Only an issue with some 67 models.

Eric
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 10, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
Alan
 
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Re: starter problem

Never tried to start with screw driver because once you bump it just a little it would start. Will look but where is bulk head fuse panel and is it difficult to take apart? Changed out electric fuel pump few months back is only other thing i have done except rebuilt front end, new frame mounts, new headers, and new hotchkiss front springs and rear leaf springs. Love driving these old cars [other driver is small block 64 Nova SS]and don t mind these little problems as long as they are taken care of. Thanks for info and help.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 10, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
Alan
 
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Re: starter problem

O.K. will have to check the wire for 12 when its on start a little later. Right now when turning key over it clicks, sometimes it will start right up, sometimes after a few times trying and other times not at all. Wires all look good or are new and all are tight. Thanks again
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 10, 11:12 AM
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Re: starter problem

The bulkhead connector is below and to the left of the brake master cylinder on the firewall. If you look inside the car under the dash on the driver's side you will see the fuse panel. The bulkhead fitting is on the back of that panel on the other side of the firewall.

ERIC
67 Convertible, 350CID, TKO600RR, 3.73 Eaton Posi
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 10, 05:12 PM
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Re: starter problem

If it clicks every time, but no crank, the starter may need to be shimmed out alittle. You can get a package of them from the Help aisle at any parts store. Start with the thinnest first and wirk your way up.

Another reason is maybe the battery can't supply enough current, but I wouldn't think so - SBC starters only need about 120 amps to crank over a stock engine w/decent compression.

Gold contacts are the best conductor.

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 10, 05:17 PM
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Re: starter problem

Here is a definitive test of the electrical system. It'll check all the wiring from the battery, horn relay, in/out of the firewall connector, through the switch and to the solenoid.

Put a test lead on the purple wire on the solenoid. Hook your volt meter up to the lead. Connect the other volt meter lead to the battery (+) post. Have a helper crank it. Should should see very little voltage on your meter while the engine cranks (less than 0.05V +/-). If you're seeing values in the 1V or higher range you've got a bad connection somewhere. You can use this same voltage drop test to follow the circuit back through the firewall connector, ingition switch etc. Find the next test point in line (say the purple wire coming from the IGN switch). Measure between it and the battery (+) as before. When you finally get your meter to read less than 0.05V or so, you've isolated the bad connection. Don't be surprised if there are several bad connections in the circuit - each adding a few hundreths of a volt drop until eventually there isn't enough oomph left to actuate the solenoid.

Dave
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 17th, 10, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
Alan
 
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Re: starter problem

Will do the electrical test, that should check everything. Took battery out of street rod and put in Camaro. Put new, bigger ground back on battery. Also added a couple more bigger grounds, one from block to frame and one fron block to body. Cleaned terminals again, made sure everything good and tight. Got in, turned key, still got the click! Still did not start. tomorrow will probably put a mini tork starter i had on shelf [new] on to see if it will work. this will be my 4th starter inc. original, in last month. After all the checking and redoing watch this be something simple! it will be kind of hard kicking yourself in the butt! Thanks for all the help! With a weird problem like this, more heads is better than one!
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 18th, 10, 06:25 PM
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Re: starter problem

I read throuigh the thread but didn't see if anyone asked. Is the battery in the stock location? What about the condition of the accessory wire off of the Positive cable?

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 10, 07:14 AM Thread Starter
Alan
 
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Re: starter problem

Sorry, have not been on here for a couple of days. Family distracions. Battery is in stock location, checked extra wire going to positive side when put in new cables, it had been spliced a couple of times so replaced most of wire to get rid of a couple of splices. Also had replaced ground wire on negative cable hat bolts to inner fender. Wife went to Autozone to pick up new starter, they checked old one [3times she said] and it was good so did not get new starter, on way home she went to Advance auto parts and they checked same starter twice and said it was good. This was after pulled starter back out, checked wiring and put back in. Could not find my tester so will have to check who borrowed it. Today, will solder the new ends, just crimped in vise when made new cables, than taped to keep out dirt,etc. Hope to run test soon that was explained earlier on this site. Thanks for all the help!
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 10, 08:35 AM
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Re: starter problem

I think your issue is with Autozone starters.I think most of that Autozone stuff is inferior. I don't imagine they test the starter under load, do they? I bought a HD GM type starter from JEG's and it never fails. I have no heat shield, but it is wired with a seperate solenoid so that it is only hot when cranking. It will crank even on a hot day with lots of heat soak. The charge wire goes to the battery, the power supply for the ignition comes from elsewhere. It is a modification of the system on MAD Electricals sight.
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