New motor...metal in oil and knocking - Team Camaro Tech
Troubleshooting Diagnosing problems done here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 10, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
Derek
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11
New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Hello, I recently bought a "new" 383 crate motor from a machine shop in Pennsylvania. I put it in my 67 RS-SS. Ive had the motor for about 6 months now. The car used to run pretty good but Ive always noticed metalic flakes in the oil. Ive put probably about 200 miles on the car since I put the new motor in. I just thought the metalic flakes were present because of it being a new motor and I figured the oil would clean up over time. Ive change the oil three times, still there is metal in oil. The oil pressure has always been steady = 60 - 70psi driving and 20-25psi at warm idle.

Ok, so the motor always ran pretty good except for the metal in oil and also I did notice some rattling under load which may have been detonation. Due to the motor having 10.8 to 1 CR (aluminum heads) I mixed Turbo blue (110 octane) in with the premium gas 50/50 which may have helped a bit.

Yesterday, I took my camaro for a drive and again noticed the rattling. It seemed to be a little worse than before. I got into it a tad...maybe only took it to 4 grand, and as I was coming out of the throttle it sounded like something broke and the rattling turned into a loud CLAT CLAT CLAT. Doesnt sound like a knock to me but I am not very mechanically inclined. I was only about a mile away from home so I did drive it home...slowly. CLAT CLAT CLAT the whole way. The oil pressure did not change at all and the car never got above 200. When I got home I took the valve covers off and did not notice anything out of the ordinary except for what appeared to be ALOT of metallic flakes in oil in the head galleys under the valve covers. No big pieces of metal, just a very sparkly tint to the oil I could see making the oil look almost silver in color. While under the valve covers, I also noticed that all of the lifters appear to be pretty loose...when the valve is closed I can shake them from side to side and hear them rattle. Should I be able to shake the lifters from side to side and be able to hear them make a noise?

Anything I could look for other than what Ive already looked for? Any advise or special tests I could do please let me know. Im not sure where I should go from here but I dont want to start the car anymore until I find the problem. What do you think? Can I send the oil somewhere to get it tested? How can I rule out a rod knocking or a wristpin?

The motor has:
Scat crank / rods
Hyper pistons
Comp hyd roller cam .500 approx
Pro Comp 190cc heads
Aluminum roller lifters
dual plane intake
Demon 750 vac sec carb
10.8 - 1 CR

I will check for a cracked flexplate and loose torque converter bolts tomorrow. It definately felt like the loud CLAT I hear now resulted in me getting in the throttle a bit.

Last edited by derek9448; Jul 12th, 10 at 10:18 AM.
derek9448 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 10, 10:52 AM
Senior Tech
Camarodude67
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 2,291
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Sounds like a Cam lobe was flattened and rocker arm is loose from your description. You can take off the top end and actually see the cam shaft or pull the lifters to determine which Cam lobe it is...

You have to use Zinc additive if this is the case to prevent cam failures.

Jeff G.
69 Vert
camarodude67 is offline  
post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 10, 11:14 AM
Senior Tech
Patrick
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Quitman Georgia
Posts: 2,519
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by camarodude67 View Post
Sounds like a Cam lobe was flattened and rocker arm is loose from your description. You can take off the top end and actually see the cam shaft or pull the lifters to determine which Cam lobe it is...

You have to use Zinc additive if this is the case to prevent cam failures.
Same thing I was thinking. Wiped cam lobe.

I just read that you have a roller cam. Not many lobe failures on a roller so now I think it is a spun rod bearing. You probably need to take off the intake first to inspect the cam.

69RS/SS,383,10:1cr,4.10,60ft1.6sec,1/[email protected],1/[email protected],Vicjr,RPMheads,750dp, Proform main body, cam,246*-250*@.050,.510,522,1.6rr,700r4,3200stall
383 IS SOLD!
Building a 489BBC

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
speedfreek is offline  
 
post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 10, 02:06 PM
Senior Tech
Steps
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 13,321
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Quote:
I did notice some rattling under load which may have been detonation.
1 or both of 2 things
1/Caplased piston skirt...usually caused by over advance on 1st start up (assuming assembly tollerances are all correct)
2/Metal in the oil...wiping a cam lobe or something in the valve train...the metal then goes thru the engine...bearings oil pump etc etc taking everything out with it

Engine needs to be completely stripped down, inspected and measured.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Steptoe is offline  
post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 10, 02:40 PM
Gold Lifetime Member
Paul
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pearl,Ms
Posts: 403
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Are you positive it has a roller cam? Sounds exactly like a flat tappet cam failure. Running it that long would take out the crank and rod bearings and cause plenty of noise. Pull the intake and check the cam and lifters.
1962vette is offline  
post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 13th, 10, 05:51 AM Thread Starter
Derek
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Yes I am positive it is a roller cam.

Against my better judgement, I started the car again last night to listen for the noise. It sounds more like a higher pitched TINK TINK TINK..."Almost" like a throwout bearing would sound but not as high pitched. Sounds like its toward the rear of the motor but the damn motor has a noisy style gear drive so its hard to determine. My car has a powerglide tranny so no throwout bearing.

How do I KNOW it is metal I am seeing and not something else? If I put a magnet in the oil, should all of the metal shavings stick to it? I want to be convinced it IS metal before moving forward.

Even if it is metal...Is metal in oil UNCOMMON in a NEW motor?

Didnt get a chance to check the flexplate...I ended up taking my daughter to the fair.

Thanks
derek9448 is offline  
post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 13th, 10, 05:57 AM Thread Starter
Derek
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Like I said, Ive noticed the sparkly silverish tint to the oil ever since I dropped the motor in my car. What would cause a cam to go bad if that is the problem? Could UNDER tightening roller rockers cause this because they do seem like they are loose to me. Should I be able to wiggle them back and forth when the valve is closed?
derek9448 is offline  
post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 13th, 10, 06:07 AM
Senior Tech
Steps
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 13,321
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

yes u can use a magnent..if it is iron.

Quote:
Even if it is metal...Is metal in oil UNCOMMON in a NEW motor?
Not on a motor that is good.

So you are not sure if it is something meant to be in the oil or metal??
Check the low pionts in the head casting around the valves...metal tends to settle out in these cnrs quite quick, can wipe up wit the finger tip.

Pull the oil filter and open it up.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Steptoe is offline  
post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 13th, 10, 08:58 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,635
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

You should get in touch with the engine builder. You should not have metal in the oil, something is coming apart.
deerhunter is offline  
post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 13th, 10, 05:13 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: California
Posts: 2,353
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Like others have said metal in the oil is bad. And it is what makes oil sparkle, nothing else in the engine will do that.
But if its a roller cam and lifters, you shouldn't have a flat cam and the rockers will be looser when the valve is closed and its normal to be able to wiggle them in place.

Sounds like a problem in the bottom end. Bearings of some sort.

Time to call the builder...
400bird is offline  
post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 10, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
Derek
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Well its definately metal. The magnet test confirmed it. I contacted the engine builder yesterday. He is SUPPOSED to get back with me.

When I drain the oil, I do not see any metal in it. I only see the metal in the low galleys of the heads. Why is this?
derek9448 is offline  
post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 10, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
Derek
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Also, if it is bearings...What would cause them to go bad so quickly? Im pretty confident that the builder lubed them up pretty good. As I said before, Ive noticed the metal pretty much from the get go. What would cause this?
derek9448 is offline  
post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 10, 07:20 AM
Senior Tech
Patrick
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Quitman Georgia
Posts: 2,519
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by derek9448 View Post
I did notice some rattling under load which may have been detonation.
I'm pretty sure pre ignition will beat the bearings out.

69RS/SS,383,10:1cr,4.10,60ft1.6sec,1/[email protected],1/[email protected],Vicjr,RPMheads,750dp, Proform main body, cam,246*-250*@.050,.510,522,1.6rr,700r4,3200stall
383 IS SOLD!
Building a 489BBC

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
speedfreek is offline  
post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 10, 07:59 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
Mickey
 
Moonpie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mesquite Texas
Posts: 2,159
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Sounds like your bearings.
Moonpie is offline  
post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 10, 05:14 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: California
Posts: 2,353
Re: New motor...metal in oil and knocking

Poor oiling would do it too.
I know you have good pressure but that doesn't mean its getting everywhere it needs to be.
400bird is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome