Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old May 14th, 11, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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Rod
 
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Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

As a level set we are talking are troubleshooting a 69 Camaro with a SBC. I am finishing a frame off and everything in the electrical system is new: AAW Classic Update harness, ignition & headlight switch, solenoid, starter, neutral safety switch, battery & cables, fuses, etc. The car has been started & ran multiple times this year with no problems.

Last weekend I was tuning the motor and I started having an intermittent starting problems, but I did start the motor and let it run multiple times. I would turn the key and starter would do nothing. I traced it down to the neutral safety switch. I get it adjusted, then I decide to get back to tuning the motor. I turn the key and the starter would engage, but not crank the motor. I assumed the starter solenoid was shot as I had problems with it in the past. I pulled the starter and had it bench check at Advance Auto and it was bad. I bought a starter for late 90s Chevy 2500 series truck with a 454 (mini starter). After installing the new starter I am having the same problem, the start is engaging, but it does not crank the motor.

I checked my voltages and here is what I am reading:
~ 12.6 vdc @ battery
~ 12.3 vdc @ red wire into ignition switch (battery)
~ 12.2 vdc @ pink wire out of ignition switch with key turned to start.
~ 7.75 vdc @ purple wire out of ignition switch with key turned to run/start (goes to neutral safety switch)
~ 7.75 vdc @ S terminal of starter solenoid which has been relocated to trunk
~ 4.99 vdc @ starter

I don't know why the voltage is dropping to 7.75 vdc on the purple wire coming out of the ignition switch? I tried adjusting the ignition switch and even got a new one, but the problem still exits and I am reading 7.75 vdc.
Any suggestions?

Rod
69 Camaro with LS2/4l70e

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old May 14th, 11, 11:13 PM
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Jon
 
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

Is the battery ground going to the block, with no paint on it that would keep it from making good contact?

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old May 14th, 11, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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Rod
 
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

Battery is in the trunk, but I have multiple grounds from the engine to the frame and the battery ground is good. I get 12.2 vdc on the pink wire out of the ignition switch, but only 7.75 vdc on the purple wire......gggrrrhhhhh!!

Rod
69 Camaro with LS2/4l70e

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old May 15th, 11, 08:21 AM
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wayne
 
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

In my opinion, the voltage from the battery at the starter may be the issue.

Perhaps you are experiencing a voltage drop from the long run coming out of the trunk.?
Trunk batteries are great as long as everything is in perfect condition.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old May 15th, 11, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Rod
 
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

OK...here is an update. As I previously mention at the starter I was getting 4.99 vdc, so I removed the starter from the circuit. I attached the voltmeter to the POS cable end that went to the starter lug and for the negative connection I installed one of the starter bolts, then attached my lead to that. When I turn the key I get 12.16 vdc. I also check battery voltage when doing this and it is 12.2 vdc with the key turned. So the rest of the circuit looks good.

So is the new starter bad or is it not grounding to the block properly? Guess I need to bench check the starter. What is the proper way to do this?

Rod
69 Camaro with LS2/4l70e

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old May 17th, 11, 11:54 AM
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

I checked starters using jumper cables off the battery.
hold starter down with your foot.


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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old May 17th, 11, 02:06 PM
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

Any of the auto parts stores can test a starter. Sounds like a bad starter.

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old May 17th, 11, 07:11 PM
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

I suggest to check starter to battery ign switch contacts as they are losing approx 4 volts in their relationship, high resistance. Clean or replace.
Battery is in low state of charge, ie, 12.16 volts indicates 20% charge.
Externally charge the battery and I would wager the problems will remedy themselves.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old May 17th, 11, 07:20 PM
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

Quote:
Battery is in the trunk,
Covered in older posts rquire damn good cables....arch welder ....
Quote:
Battery is in low state of charge, ie, 12.16 volts indicates 20% charge.
I have 12.9 V dropping to 11.8 while starter turns the engine....
My O2 data logger gives these readings while heating the O2 sensor.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old May 17th, 11, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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Rod
 
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

Another update... I took the brand new starter and battery to Advance Auto and had them tested. They both passed, but the battery was a little low, 12.2V, so I put it on the charger. I will try it once it is fully charged...

As for the ignition switch, I replaced it again (the one that was in there was new), but the voltage reading is still low. The entire wiring harness is new and none of the ignition switch terminal ends are damaged and they are locked into the connector. Even with the low voltage it activates the remote solenoid in the trunk. On the starter itself I jumpered the S terminal to the starter terminal.

Tomorrow I will have a friend try to start the car while I am underneath to actually see what the starter is doing.

Rod
69 Camaro with LS2/4l70e

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old May 17th, 11, 09:42 PM
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

What size cable did you run from the trunk? I used 1/0. Where is your main batt ground connected? Where is your accessory wire connected, and what size wire?

Have you tried putting a remote starter button on it? You'd need to remove your jumper wire from the batt terminal to the S terminal. Connect the remote button between the batt terminal and S terminal on the starter. If it cranks normally then the problem will be in the wiring to the S terminal. (front harness, engine harness, dash harness, switches, connections, etc.


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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old May 17th, 11, 10:28 PM
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

What Al says above... can us an old screwdriver to jump starter connections
Quote:
I took the brand new starter and battery to Advance Auto and had them tested They both passed,.
Did they just bench test or dismantle and test solenoid/ starter and starter armiture separatly?

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old May 18th, 11, 03:20 AM
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPOS View Post
What size cable did you run from the trunk? I used 1/0. Where is your main batt ground connected?
This is vital. With trunk mounted batteries, the importance of a dedicated ground from the battery to the block often overlooked. The body alone is inadequate. Your starting system is only as good as it's ground.

Last edited by Sauron67MM; May 18th, 11 at 03:36 AM. Reason: '
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old May 18th, 11, 03:34 AM
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

amen with scott
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 16th, 11, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
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Rod
 
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Re: Starting woes....starter engages but won't crank

I forgot about this thread.....anyways the mystery is solved and there was nothing wrong with anything in the starter circuit. The reason for the starter wouldn't turn over the motor was the #8 cylinder siezed in the block and wouldn't allow the motor to turnover, which also cause the voltage drop at the starter when you tried to start the car. Here is a link to thread on the motor issues, https://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=196527 , looks like I am going to be in the market for a new motor...

Rod
69 Camaro with LS2/4l70e

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