Bogging - Team Camaro Tech
Troubleshooting Diagnosing problems done here.

 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 00, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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Two things:

Does anyone know of a good site to explain what happens when a car bogs of the line?

Now the reason I ask the question: I have a 350 with Edelbrock Performer manifold and an Edelbrock Performer 600cfm Carb. I had an Accu-Drive dear drive which I got sick of and removed. Before removing it it ran great (just noisy). I replaced it with a Performer-Link true roller using a 0 degree advance. Once I started the car up I noticed that the timming was off. I had to back off the idle screw and retard the ignition about 14 degrees. Is this normal or did something go wrong in the swap? Right now I think I'm still 2 or 3 degrees too advanced since I still have a little pinging and it bogs off the line but I'll have to pull the distributor and move it a few teath over since I've ran out of room to back it off. Should I have run into this?

Thanks,
Steve
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 00, 10:22 PM
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Steve, Did you install the Acu-drive yourself initialy? The reason I ask this is because the gear drive would have been installed off of number 6. Edelbrock doesn't manufacture the Acu-drive. It is made for them by Dyna-gear. They are a large producer od industrial gear sets and do make a few automotive aplications. Namley the Chevy Big and small blocks, and the s/b Ford. As far as I know thats it. Anyway, when going back to the chain, the motor would need to be brought up to number 1 just as if you were initaly building it for the first time. Then bring the cam around and line it up. That would acount for the bog and "pinging". That is the only way I know to do it and not get crossed up. Galen

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 00, 10:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Actually I did install the gear drive myself but installed it in the number 1 position. This is the first I've heard about installing in the number 6 spot. At the time I also did the manifold install and had the distributor out. I don't recall if I had any big problems getting it timed though.

Steve
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 00, 09:12 PM
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Steve,

It sounds to me like the cam timing is off now. We think because every thing says 0 all is ok, not so.

There are 4 key ways here to deal with, the one's in the crank, and the cam are the same. you have changed the cam gear, and the crank gear.

Let's do a what if here, what if the dowel hole in the cam sproket is off 3 degrees, since it is geared 2 to 1 from the crank this moves the cam 1 1/2 degrees. Now what if the key way in the crank gear is off 3 degrees, that will be the actual change in the cam. Now the total change is 4 1/2 degrese.

Have you ever wondered why one car right out of the factory runs much better than another car exactly alike. this is why cam timing.

If you don't see this yet I will give you an actual account of this very problem. We had a .060 over small block running circle track and we changed the short block out for another fresh 360 short block. The short blocks were just alike.We used the cam, lifters,heads,from the orig engine to make this engine complete again.

The first engine ran great and was winning races. When we tried the new engine, it was dead headed out of the corners, and about the flag stand it would come on so hard it would almost turn around in the middle of the track.

Here is the solution: this was an old Reed cam with a 104 center line, I took it apart and checked it and the cam was on 99 degreese center line. I then redgreed the cam set it on 104 and this engine now ran just like the first one.

Now what happened here, the key way in the crank was the only different key and so it had to be off at least 5 degrees.

I think if this is in fact the only change made then you are going to need to degree your cam to ever make it run right again.

Larry
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 26th, 00, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ok, so I'll degree the cam. While I'm doing this... Is there a better way to make sure that the crank is in the proper position than lining up the mark with line of site?

Thanks for your advice,
Steve
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 26th, 00, 07:01 PM
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I believe that when the #1 cylinder is at TDC that the keyway on the crank will be straight up. then you can line it up. good luck
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 27th, 00, 12:17 AM
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There is a tool that you can screw in #1 spark plug hole and let the piston come up to touch it, by hand turning the engine.

With the degree wheel on the crank turn the crank until it touches the tool. (numbers used are hyperthetic) Set the wheel at 15 deg, then turn engine backwards until the tool touches, read wheel, and say it reads 20 deg. There is 5 deg difference from the first reading, so divide this in half. Move wheel, or marker 2 1/2 deg. now turn the engine back the other way to see if it reads 17 1/2 deg. See with this tool in the plug hole you can't read 0 deg because it stops the piston short of top, but if you get wheel to read the same on both sides of the rotation, then when you remove the tool and the wheel reads 0 it will be true 0. Remember this whole problem is related to the key way location so you can't go by the balancer/timing marks.

Also when finished if you bring the wheel to 0 deg and can get the balancer and timing cover on without moving crank then you can check your timing marks to see if they are off.

You can make one of these tools by breaking center out of an old spark plug, and put something through it to stop piston. I think the spark plug hole is 14MM so get a bolt to screw in, but you might want to get a nut to snug up against the head, because the tool cannot move at all or the readings will be off. One or two deg here makes all the difference.

You will need your cam card or know center line of your cam before you start.

All this is a lot of trouble I agree but it will bring your engine back to life.

The dist timing being off proves the cam has moved from where it was before. Also if you remove the spark plugs all this turning is easier.

Larry

[This message has been edited by lnjstreetrods (edited 10-27-2000).]
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 27th, 00, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thank You guys for the advice I really appreciate it. - Steve
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