95 3.4 liter, 5 spd clutcj problems - Team Camaro Tech
Troubleshooting Diagnosing problems done here.

 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 03, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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hey guys, i am fixing a friends 95 camaro 3.4 5 spd that would not shift at all, could only get in gear when engine was off. first thought clutch was no coming on all the way, got repair manual for hydro clutch checks, and it seemed that the slave cylinder(ecternal) was not moving enough, book called for 1 inch, so slave had no leak i figured it was master, so i replace master and we could shift it now but it was hard, so i changed slave and bled system and bingo had it, shifted great took for 20 mile ride and was perfect, next morning shifted perfect, called buddy, he came and got it, next day same thing would not shift??????? man oh man, talked to napa and asked how many masters come back, and of course they say none really!! so next day i went and got car and brought to my garage and wouldn't shift unless engine was off, i could not get parts for it so i left it, had to move out of garage and it shifted perfect again, took for ride and was good????? what the hell, i am at wits end, when it doesn't shift i thought maybe the master was getting soft, so i pumped clutch like 30 times and it doesn't start to work so it doesn't seem to be a bad master, you would think if it was blowing by or whatever you would be able to pump the hell out of it and get it back, but no, there are no tests to do, and i don't have much clutch experience, i can install new clutch, etc, but don't know what to look for other than basics, every other car i have ever fixed is either the master, slave or proportioning valve, never had one with a bad pressure plate, etc, and i do not want to do new clutch and have it not work and feel bad to charge them and so on, any help would be great, sorry for the book
Jake

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 03, 08:44 PM
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If he just bought the car a little while ago maybe it's the old dirt in the bell housing to get a burned out clutch to grab. Heard about that trick in the 60's.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 03, 12:45 AM
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Ask NAPA to exchange another master cylinder from a different branch or batch.

Either m/c is bypassing, lip seal has a chuck of the lip gone, or inferior parts.

If you bought a rebuilt m/cyl, the rebuilder probably put a hone into the cylinder. This put a sharp edge into the supply hole at the top of the cylinder. Every time the lip of the seal passes by, a piece comes off. The seal has to get past the supply hole in order to create pressure. If the original contour of the hole isn't replaced, sharp edge.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 03, 03:09 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for the help, everett, i did just that on saturday and have another m/c coming tuesday morning, they are new units, i will call my local gm dealer and get price on gm part, to see if there is a big difference inprice, sometimes i am surprised that price is close, as to me it is worth extra 10 bucks for gm unit but not 100 bucks if that is the case, anyway i will try another new m/c and see what happens, lets hope, do you think there is anything in clutch that could be doing this, ??? pilot bushing, pressure plate, bad bearing in tranny(maybe has a bad spot on it), but nothing makes sense as this problem seems to come and go!!! hope the new m/c will help, thanks
Jake
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Feb 4th, 03, 12:50 AM
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It reads like the clutch itself is good, when it works.

Just troubleshoot using the pedal feel. If depress pedal and its stiff and release action doesn't happen, then t/o brg is sticking or weak arms or diaphram in pressure plate.

If feel is very light, as in no resistance, and slave cyl doesn't move in its stroke, m/c bypassing or leaking, providing slave doesn't show signs of leaks.

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Feb 4th, 03, 01:11 AM Thread Starter
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everett, slave moves at the least little touch of the pedal, and moves about 3/4 of an inch the book says it should move 1 inch, the pedal feel coming back is good, no slipping at all just problems shifting, or getting clutch to come on, today i will try another m/c and bleed system again and see what happens, i hate shooting in the dark with an off and on problem, but thanks for your help
Jake
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 03, 08:55 AM
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With the symptoms given, I'd say the m/c is too small in diameter or slave is too big.

Pedal stroke not enough. Is the pushrod adjusted for minor distance? There shold be about 1/16-1/8 inch of free play in pedal to m/c. Is pushrod in the correct hole on pedal?

What I'm trying to relay is this: if the slave cyl needs to move 1 inch, and its volume of fluid needed is to be 3 cu. in., then, the m/c has to move 3 cu. in of fluid. That is if both cylinders are 1 inch diameter, the magic number is the same. If one cylinder is of a different diameter, then things change. If slave stays at 1 in diameter, and needs 1 inch stroke and m/c is 1/2 inch diameter, then m/c stroke shall be 2 inches to move the same amount 3 cu.in of fluid.

Don't you often wonder where went wrong in a simple changeout of a part?

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 03, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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i here that about a simple fix gone way bad, anyway today i changed out the m/c i had put in it last week,. i was extra careful and i bled it thoroughly, guess what NO LUCK!!! this thing is getting to be a pos, its just nothing that is jumping out at me, nothing to check or what there is too check checks good, so anyway i will call a friend who does tranny's and find out what he thinks thanks for the help
Jake
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 03, 03:39 PM
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did you remember to fill the fluid after you bled it? i have thought over this for a minute and i think that air is entering the line from the slave cylinder. it could be a bad o-ring around the pushrod and it is taking a gulp of air when it is let back in. if the car is not working now, go bleed the system and try your luck again. drive it until it breaks again and then check for any ait that might have entered the lines.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 03, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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nate, you should re-read my post, i replaced master first, bled system, it shifted but hard, i replaced slave, filled slave with fluid then installed line, then bled system, shifted great, for 2 days now it won't shift, if slave was problem it would leak, the slave is not being pushed far enough, thus not realeasing the clutch(disengaging from motor), this system also does not have any bleeders and you bleed by pumping slave cylinder, until all air bubbles are out up in resovoir, i have done this many times and the slave is vary hard moving in as it is pushing fluid up through the m/c onto the resovoir, i have gone to install 2nd new m/c and bled system to no avail, i will talk to some tranny guys tomorrow and see what they have to say.oh ya, yes i cjecked fluid when bleeding and after, it is full!!! again there are no bleeders in this system, so you do not have substanial fluid loss just a little as you get rid of air, level goes down when i let pushrod out and when i push it in it goes up pushing an air bubble, i do this until there are no bubbles as the manual says
jake
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[This message has been edited by BBCamaro (edited 02-05-2003).]
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Jan 3rd, 04, 10:03 AM
 
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Jake,
My '92 Camaro with 3.1l and 5speed has done that to me several times, and everytime it was the clutch. One of the springs comes out of the clutch disk and even though the clutch pedal depresses it dosen't release the clutch. I would pull the tranny and check it. Be carefull using the clutch till you figure it out since the first time it happened to me it broke the bellhousing and it was a pain to find a replacement.

good luck
steve
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Jan 3rd, 04, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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junk, thanks for the reply, i got that done, like you said i pulled tranny, found pressure plate had cracked a small peice off, and pilot bushing was way gone, so i installed new clutch and had flywheel surfaced, installed tranny and guess what??
it didn't work, back to bleeding the system, to no avail, junked the napa master ordered a gm slave witch complete pre bled from gm, installed that and guess what did not work, measured throw of the slave and it was same as we had before.
comes out that car had been wrecked and the firewall had been pushed forwar, thus not allowing enough pedal to be givin top the clutch before hitting the floor, guy did not want to reinforce area, as it seemed pretty stiff so i lengthened the master rod so it pulled the pedal further from the floor, thus giving it enough play to shift properly, problem fixed, had customer sign invoice stating car had been wrecked and we had to cusotmize clutch master rod, what a nightmare, but its done and its been almost a year with no problems, damn i hate those jobs, kinda funny how nothing was said about car being a fixed wreck when it came in . man do i like the old clutch linkage, more than enough throw no matter what, these hydraulic ones need the complete pedal travel or they will shift hard or not at all, whoever repaired car did a nice job as it was barely noticeble in the firewall area on that side, but i guess they did not think about the clutch
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Jan 5th, 04, 12:43 AM
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Thanks for the update, Jake. Always wondered what happened.......

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