heat soak? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 00, 06:24 AM Thread Starter
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i seem to be experiencing heat soak in my 69 ss 396 camaro. it has stock exhaust and the starter was supposed rebuilt in '96 with very few miles put on it since then (less than 3000?). i installed a small body hei unit and redid the wiring between it and the solenoid when i put it in (having problem before dist. replacement). it has a msd blaster 2 coil. it starts right up when cold. if it does not get too warm, 10 mins of running, it will still start right up. if i go longer than that, nothing happens. turn the key and the lights light up, but no sound at all (no clicking or anything). if i wait awhile it will start right up with no problem, seems to take less time if i raise the hood. i have not had the battery checked. the cable looks fairly new from the battery to the starter, but i have not checked it either, nor any ground wires. my ? is what procedure should i follow?
get the battery checked, check the wiring and get the starter checked? i would like to just replace the solenoid with a Delco solenoid and get a "Glove heat shield" from the welding supply store and make a quickly heat shield with it. will this fix my problem or will i have to go to the ford relocation program or buy a whole new mini starter? i would like to leave it as stock as possible. also should any good auto elec. shop or an autozone be able to check everything for me before i go to replacing everything?


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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 00, 04:44 PM
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Try a good quality solenoid on it. Sounds like heat soak. GM makes a softer return spring that can help.
I have used standard motor products "blue streak" solenoids. Or go to GM and ask if they have a solenoid for your problem.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 00, 07:18 AM
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Mike,

I had this same problem on my big block. It turned out to be the battery cables. I verified this by placing a voltmeter between the starter's battery cable lug and ground. When I tried to start the car this voltage read ~8 V compared to 12 V (battery voltage) at all other times while always maintaining 12 volts at the battery. This meant that there was enough resistance in the cable to provide a 4 volt drop. I changed the cable and never had the problem again - as a matter of fact the starter had enough torque to start and launch the car while in gear. I found that out the day the clutch pedal broke off - you can't imagine a wierder feeling than pushing down that pedal and having it break off.

[This message has been edited by Kevin (edited 04-24-2000).]
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 00, 06:58 AM
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I've had this problem, too. When David says "good quality" solenoid, I'm sure he means genuine AC Delco. Anything less is a problem waiting to happen again.



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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 00, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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well i had the starter checked and it tested ok, i went ahead and bought a real Delco solenoid ($20) and a heat shield from gm ($5 - for a 454 pick up, but it fit). warmed it up yesterday and took it for a short cruse and it started after being shut off. not really hot enough for a true test. i'll keep ya posted and thanks for the replies.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 00, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up

update:
I took it on a 30 mile trip to my mom and dad's and it started up every time after just cutting it off and letting it set there a while and warm a little more. Not sure if the old solenoid was weak and the new one did the trick or if the shield is helping out some, but i hope the problem is solved. Another piece of good news is that i installed one of Dave's (IgnitionMan) small body HEI's units, reset the timing and took out the old splitfires @ .033 gap and put in autolights at a .044 gap. the car wasn't running bad before, but my mileage has jumped from 10 mpg to about 13 1/2 mpg. At this rate the new dist. will pay for itself by summer and still looks stock.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old May 4th, 00, 12:31 AM
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hey mike,
i had a similar problem with my 396, and i did the opposite. i added a ford starter solenoid and haven't had any problems. by adding this solenoid, it gives you the opportunity to mount the solenoid away from the heat and headers. before they started making kits for this, i enlarged a picture of this new product and went out and made my own version of it. total cost, 10.00 dollars for the solenoid. i had the wire and a small piece of metal to use as a jumper at the factory solenoid. solved my problems.
later,
bruce
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old May 4th, 00, 06:05 AM
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I just had to post to say how good Powermaster starter company has treated me. I was suffering from the dreaded "heat soak" problem as well. I ordered a gear reduction Powermaster from Summit to correct the problem. When I installed the starter I was unable to properly shim it and kept having the pinion gear grind against the flexplate. Anyway, I called Powermaster on their 800 number and they sent another brand new starter FREE OF CHARGE to me with a horizontal shim to alter the gear engagement timing. They had no knowledge of me or my purchase with Summit except for my word on it. Anyway, the starter works great and no more heat problems!!!

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old May 4th, 00, 05:01 PM
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What coil are you using?
I'd read where the HEI used a special coil that was electrically different from the older GM round type.
Are you using the late 80's external GM coil that has the laminated transformer look to it?

Don't go too wide on the plug gap. The engine compression makes the resistance go up in the cylinder at the plug gap and the juice will seek another route to ground. That .045" I would consider max or even pushing it a little. The arc will go to the rotor mounting screws, or another cylinder with the smaller cap.
David

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[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 05-04-2000).]
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old May 4th, 00, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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if this ? is for me, it has a msd blaster 2 coil as stated in the first post.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old May 4th, 00, 06:06 PM
 
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With Mike's setup for an HEI, Ford/MSD pickup, 4 prong HEI module, MSD Blaster II coil, copper terminal cap, long bar rotor, spiral core wires all in the point distributor body, I suggest .050 gap with any compression ratio below 10.50:1. If the engine has more compression, lower the gap .010 for every 1/2 point compression ratio rise down to .030 (11.50:1.

Any mechanical compression ratio increase, nitrous, turbo, blower, lower the gap to .030/.032 from the start, even if the system is voltage boosted HEI and CD, MSD types.

[This message has been edited by IgnitionMan (edited 05-05-2000).]
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