Not again! - Team Camaro Tech
Troubleshooting Diagnosing problems done here.

 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 01, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: hemet,ca,usa
Posts: 9
Angry

"Houston we have a problem" Can anyone help me? I have a 1968 Camaro that I am rebuilding. When I purchased the car it was running. I drove it home and began a three year process of tear down and rebuild. It is important to remember that when I began to take it apart, the fan shroud was missing, and the rubber transmission mount was broke. The car does not appear to have ever been involved in a major collision, but may have been in a fender bender or two. I bought it with a 327 and a turbo 350, although it was originally a power-glide. I have done a 90% rebuild which included new sub frame bushings (replacing one at a time so I could maintain alignment of the sub-frame) so the sub-frame was never really off the car. My problem is, the transmission is resting against the trans tunnel (passenger side) and won't line up with the trans mounting holes. The engine is about 3/4" closer to the passenger-side fender than the driver-side and the fan won't fit completely in the fan shroud. I have measured from the fender mounting holes on the rear-top of the fenders to the center of the upper valance, and the measurements are the same. The motor and transmission mounts are new, the engine and transmission have both been rebuilt and bolted together perfectly. The sub-frame does not have any signs of being modified, all the body panels are on the car and line up perfectly. However, the car does have 1969 disk brakes and a friend of mine suggested that the sub-frame may be out of a 69. I have also been told it doesn't make a difference, that the sub-frames are interchangeable. I've concluded that the body could be completely eliminated from the scenario leaving the engine, Transmission, sub-frame, radiator support, radiator, fan-shroud, and fan. Envisioning those items still assembled, the transmission and engine assembly would still not allow the transmission to line up in the cross member holes, and the fan would still miss the fan-shroud opening. I have insured the frame purchases are for the small block. Is there an answer other than the sub-frame being bent? Are there multiple versions of the Turbo 350 or tail shaft housings? I donít think itís how Iíve put it back together thatís the problem, I believe itís been a problem with previous owners as well. Which may explain the lack of a fan-shroud and the broken transmission mount.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 01, 04:28 PM
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Are you sure you have the correct motor mounts and small block frame brackets?
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 01, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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Absolutely. I removed them and went to restoration shop near my home to buy the "correct" ones. When the guy emerged from the back with the "new" ones they were the same. He then went back and got the big block ones and they were clearly different. The big block mounts are different from right to left. They are not what I have. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cavemate:
Are you sure you have the correct motor mounts and small block frame brackets? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 01, 07:52 PM
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Location: Washington ST
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Talking

Was the crossmember removed? If so, try flipping it around from it current position. It does make a difference as I encountered this on a couple of prior Camaros. Good luck
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 01, 03:42 AM Thread Starter
 
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Location: hemet,ca,usa
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I've reversed my cross member back and forth. Either way I have to pry the transmission over to meet the mounting holes. This has been extremely frustrating for over a year. If there's a SoCal Camaro nut out there who can give me a hand, let me know. I live in Hemet near Riverside/Temecula.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 01, 07:01 AM
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Bret
 
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I'm thinking as I'm writing this, so bear with me.
1) The problem with the engine not being centered between the fenders, the tranny hitting the tunnel and the fan not matching up to the shroud sound like the subframe is not square to the body. You can check this by checking the alignmnent pin holes on the subframe firewall mount locations. If it's off, loosen all six subframe bolts and shove it into position.

2) The more troubling problem is the tranny not lining up with the crossmember. No matter how far off the subframe is from the body, it seems the tranny should still bolt up. Some potential problems:
-Bent frame
-Engine frame brackets are switched from right to left
-You have a big block tranny crossmember
-Possibly mis matched frame mounts/engine mounts (I think they changed design in 69)

I'd try to find another first gen to compare to and get out a tape measure.

Hope you get it figured out!

------------------
Bret Copsey
'68 Camaro base coupe
'92 Caprice wagon
'98 Malibu
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 01, 08:02 AM
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I think the frame is bent...check the frame "horns" (where the bumper bolts to) see if one has been welded/repaired. I had a 68 Firebird that was hit on the R. Frame horn. I welded on a 'new' horn and everything else LOOKED okay. When I went to put the motor back in, the rh mount wouldnt line up with the frame mount. (Firebirds use one bolt going up, into the mount) Although everything looked okay, the fframe was still bent and I got a new frame. One of your frame engine brackets is probably pushed back just a little. Remember, a 1/4" off at the engine mount would mean apporox 1/2" off at the crossmember.,...
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 01, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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That may be it. If the vehicle had been hit from the front on one side, it may have pushed one side back and the frame rails may have remained parallel. Anybody have the true measurements and where I should take them from?
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 01, 09:06 AM
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Mike
 
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Location: GARDEN GROVE CALIF
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Hey cal. having been down a similar road this summer with a motor swap in my 69. I question the frame mounts for the engine. I had a frame mount cracked so I replaced both. One of the resto shops sold my some "that will work". Bu_lsh_t. They were too high. Ricks first gen set me straight with the parts. There is a difference in the height of the frame mounts if you look at ricks first gen or the new classic catalog, you'll notice there were two frame mounts for small block one set for 302 or 350 and another set for 307 and 327 as well as different motor mounts to go with the respective frame mounts. This just my 2 cents.

------------------
Black 69 camaro
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 01, 09:32 AM
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Bret
 
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This is for a Firebird which is supposed to be identical to the Camaro.
http://www.locl.net/homes/sapple/frmt/frmt6.html

------------------
Bret Copsey
'68 Camaro base coupe
'92 Caprice wagon
'98 Malibu
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 01, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
 
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This is great! I'll check into it and let everyone know. Thanks for the diagram.
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