impossible to solve starting problem - Team Camaro Tech
Troubleshooting Diagnosing problems done here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 02, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Farmington, NM
Posts: 77
Hey guys
I need some big time help, I am very very frustrated and i cant find any solutions..
Here is some of the parts I have and whats happening:

20k mile 355 motor with new edelbrock e-tec 200cc cylinder heads, performer rpm vortec airgap manifold, speed demon 750 dp carb, msd 6al ignition, HEI distributor, comp cams 284xe installed 2 degrees advanced.

I put the motor right on top dead center, or what appears to be (valves 1 closed, timing mark at 0). Stab distributor, install wires according to standard chevy firing order.

Crank a few times here, some noise out of the exhaust, but the motor doesnt try to fire up at all. A fine mist of gas shoots out the carb. I play with the distributor in this position but no significant changes. One time I get a big backfire out the exhaust.

Maybe, I'm 180 off.. So I switch the wires around and try it here. Now I get a huge backfire right out the carb, seems to come from passenger side (maybe).. Play with the timing in this position, and throttle, and I get some big flames out the carb.

Motor is spinning freely, valves seems to be opening and closing fine. Nice strong spark. Carb squirters are working.

I try to mess with valve lash, but no luck on that either. I called up my physics teacher who has built a few 60's corvettes, and he doesnt know whats going on either.

Is it possible I installed the camshaft incorrectly? what else could cause a problem like this? Everything seems to work like it should, and I cant figure out anything else to play around with the timing or anything. As far as I know (and its my first motor), the spark, fuel, and timing are correct.. ??

When I installed the cam i used a crane cams timing set that has the crankshaft gear with the degree marks on it. I turned it where the 2 degree mark was on top of the crank, and installed the cam with the mark on the gear down. Was it supposed to be up?

Thanks, sorry for the long post.
matth is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 02, 06:38 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 138
Timing mark on cam (o) should be directly over (o) mark on crank gear. like this ( . Has your crank gear got 3 key slots in it?
jhow66 is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 02, 06:39 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 138
Sorry --like this :.
jhow66 is offline  
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 02, 06:44 PM
Moderator
David Pozzi
 
davidpozzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Central California, USA
Posts: 10,122
I think you got the cam in right. There are usually three keyways in the crank sprocket. Whatever keyway you use make sure to align the cam with the mark that matches the key mark.

This is important, so I'm going to say it another way.
Three keyways in the crank sprocket, three different marks next to each one. Usually a square, a triangle, a circle or "O".
Near the sprocket teeth, there are the same three marks, square, triangle, "o".

If you use the triangle keyway on the crank, use the trangle mark to line up to the cam sprocket.
It is OK to line up the marks by having crank up, cam mark down.
The engine will be on TDC for #6 cylinder at that position.
If you turn the engine one revolution, the cam mark will be at 12 oclock position, TDC #1 cyl.
Since the cam turns at half speed the crank takes two turns to one cam turn.

I would atach a remote starter button and with the car blocked and ign wire pulled, remove the #1 spark plug and put your finger over the plug hole. Crank till you feel a rush of air coming out, then bump the button till the timing marks are lined up. Drop in the distributor with the rotor pointing to #1 plug wire. All chevys point the rotor to #1 cylinder AND to #1 plug wire. So the rotor should be pointing generally at the drivers side headlight on the car, and you would turn the distributor so the plug wire for #1 lines up with the rotor.

Turn the distributor body till you see the teeth on the mag trigger all line up. Then I'd give it a 10 degree turn more counterclockwise and lock it down to start with.

If the distributor does not seat fully, the oil pump drive is not engaged. You can bump the starter till the distributor drops down fully, then get the crank back up to TDC #1 to verify the distributor is in right.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page
First Gen Suspension Page
67 RS 327 original owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 03-25-2002).]
davidpozzi is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 02, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Farmington, NM
Posts: 77
I did this like two months ago (cam install) so its hard to remember. It seems like it only had one key way on the crank gear.

matth is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 02, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Farmington, NM
Posts: 77
thanks..
I wish I could remember better, sorry. You typed the same time I did.. lol

So it doesnt sound like a cam problem?
matth is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 02, 06:52 PM
Moderator
David Pozzi
 
davidpozzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Central California, USA
Posts: 10,122
With #1 cyl on TDC, the pushrods for #1 should be almost exactly even in height. If intake is taller, cam is retarded, if exhaust is taller, it is advanced.
A really radical cam will not be exactly even at TDC, but this works for many cams.

I would go over the timing before worrying about the cam.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page
First Gen Suspension Page
67 RS 327 original owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer
davidpozzi is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 02, 01:28 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: DULUTH, GA.
Posts: 917
The XE line of cams already have advance ground into them. I (or comp) does not recommend installing them anything but straight up!

An aquaintence of mine brought us a street rod with the very same thing....very poor starting habits and it turned out that the cam was advanced in it toooo. It had the XE line.

Just a thought!

------------------
STEVE JACK
ConceptOne Pulleys and Brackets

[This message has been edited by HOTRODSRJ (edited 03-26-2002).]
HOTRODSRJ is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 02, 02:09 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 264
Had this same problem on a 72 Monte Carlo.As it turned out,I did not install the timing gear so the marks lined up. This would be the first thing to check as stated above.
67camss/rs is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 02, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Farmington, NM
Posts: 77
In the comp cams instructions it said although the cam is ground advance, it recommend advancing it a little anyways.
So I just did 2 degrees. ??

I will try to mess with timing again for a few more hours, and if that doesnt work I'll pull everything apart again. (I guess!! noooo!!!)
matth is offline  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 02, 12:06 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mill Creek, Wa
Posts: 107
Matt, wondering if the plug wires are on the dist cap clockwise or if you might have put them on thinking it rotated counter-clockwise. and doublecheck firing order. good luck
67rsmoneypit is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 02, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Farmington, NM
Posts: 77
Thanks for all the ideas
I have rechecked the plug order at least 4 times.. And even done it in reverse for kicks.

Tomorrow I will try out some of these suggestions and see what happens
matth is offline  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 02, 04:12 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Westlake, OH 44145
Posts: 707
By now I am sure your plougs are fouled out!!! Check/clean/replace before trying anything else!!!!!!!!!!!!
Milan is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 02, 04:15 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Winnetka (aka L.A.), Ca.
Posts: 103
I once got stumped by a "non-starting" engine and it was nothing more than the fact that I had the valves adjusted too tight! The "give-away" that I missed was that the engine cranked over fairly quick and that should have told me that there wasn't any compression resisting it.

Dang I hate admitting that story and will not tell how far I went trying to "fix" it.

------------------
Wes. Vann
Technical Reference Section
Wes V is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 02, 08:21 AM
Senior Tech
Jeff
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Hudson Valley, New York
Posts: 352
I wouold pull the timing cover and check the marks like others have suggested. If that is fine, check your valve settings and timing. This might sound crazy, but when you try to start it up, is the choke closed? I once cranked a motor, wouldn't start, changed timing, pulled the dist back out, set firing order, etc. A friend was there, held the choke flap shut and it fired right up. I would have never believed it!! check the obvious first.
Ratpack is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome