stuck at the gas station in my 69 - Team Camaro Tech
Troubleshooting Diagnosing problems done here.

 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 00, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Angry

hey everyone i just started working on my 69 again you know how that goes it was under the cover for 2 years anyway im having a problem with the starter when the car is cold it starts right up but when the engine gets hot and i turn it off and then try to restart it i have to wait 15-20 minutes for it to cool down pretty embarrasing as i got stuck at the gas station last week its a 396 bb and im wondering why this is happening i dont have a heat shield on the starter could that be the problem i got the car started with the old screw driver on the stater what else can i check as im an amatuer mechanic

thanks

jb
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 00, 06:32 PM
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If you have an automatic trans, check the neutral safety switch.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 00, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
 
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the car was originally an automatic but now its is a manual where is the neutral safety switch located and what is its function? thx <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by davidpozzi:
If you have an automatic trans, check the neutral safety switch.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 00, 08:12 AM
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I have the same problem with my car. In fact, during a recent cruise with my Camaro club, we had three cars at one of our stopping points act up and not start. It was a sad sight. One of the guys pulled out a screwdriver and arced the starter to get them started.

After that episode, I installed one of those hand held remote starters. It has a wire and trigger mechanism that connects the two terminals on the starter. When I have this problem, I just put my key in the on position, and pull the trigger. I have it tucked way up under the dash and wired through the fire wall to the starter. I fixed the problem for $6.00. When I have some extra money, I will go and buy a mini high torque starter that will solve the problem. (I swear, I actually did this!! What can I say, I am cheap...)
Rick
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 00, 09:31 AM
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This is a very common problem, GM Solenoid Heat Soak. Check the tech info section here for the fix



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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 00, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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thanks rick
jb <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rickmack:
I have the same problem with my car. In fact, during a recent cruise with my Camaro club, we had three cars at one of our stopping points act up and not start. It was a sad sight. One of the guys pulled out a screwdriver and arced the starter to get them started.

After that episode, I installed one of those hand held remote starters. It has a wire and trigger mechanism that connects the two terminals on the starter. When I have this problem, I just put my key in the on position, and pull the trigger. I have it tucked way up under the dash and wired through the fire wall to the starter. I fixed the problem for $6.00. When I have some extra money, I will go and buy a mini high torque starter that will solve the problem. (I swear, I actually did this!! What can I say, I am cheap...)
Rick
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 00, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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thanks jim

jb <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JimM:
This is a very common problem, GM Solenoid Heat Soak. Check the tech info section here for the fix<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 00, 06:12 PM
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The solenoid has to overcome a return spring, and whatever friction the starter drive has, also, inside the solenoid, right under the cap is a small, very stiff spring that stops the plunger travel. Right behind the cap is a copper washer that strikes the top and bottom starter terminals engaging the starter.

Several things can go wrong. The solenoid can fail if the washer eventually hammers and arcs on the heads of the two large contacts. If you look at the solenoid cap, where the attachment screws are on each side, they protrude into the washer area, and the washer will hit this bump inside the cap if the contacts wear a little.

If the cars electrical system is not up to par and can't deliver enough voltage to the solenoid, it won't engage the starter.
Also, if there is anything wrong with the starter that would cause it to draw too much amperage, like worn brushes or dragging armiture, it will cause the starter to chatter. GM has a weaker solenoid return spring that helps some starters work.There are some high heat solenoids too. Others use a ford type remote solenoid triggered by the starter switch.
I like the mini starters, I found a rebuild shop in Reno NV that sells them for $100.00 They were selling them at the GoodGuys carshow at Pleasanton, CA. I can get you the info if you are interested.

On the location of the neutral safety switch. The switch is on the steering colum for colum shift cars. And on the shifter for console shifter cars. I'd find where the switch is or was, and make shure it is bypassed. A little extra resistance in the connection could cause your trouble.
Also make shure your starter or solenoid is not just worn out. A lot of normal wear problems, bad connections, etc get blamed on heat soak.

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 03-08-2000).]
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 9th, 00, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
 
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thanks for the info David

jb <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by davidpozzi:
The solenoid has to overcome a return spring, and whatever friction the starter drive has, also, inside the solenoid, right under the cap is a small, very stiff spring that stops the plunger travel. Right behind the cap is a copper washer that strikes the top and bottom starter terminals engaging the starter.

Several things can go wrong. The solenoid can fail if the washer eventually hammers and arcs on the heads of the two large contacts. If you look at the solenoid cap, where the attachment screws are on each side, they protrude into the washer area, and the washer will hit this bump inside the cap if the contacts wear a little.

If the cars electrical system is not up to par and can't deliver enough voltage to the solenoid, it won't engage the starter.
Also, if there is anything wrong with the starter that would cause it to draw too much amperage, like worn brushes or dragging armiture, it will cause the starter to chatter. GM has a weaker solenoid return spring that helps some starters work.There are some high heat solenoids too. Others use a ford type remote solenoid triggered by the starter switch.
I like the mini starters, I found a rebuild shop in Reno NV that sells them for $100.00 They were selling them at the GoodGuys carshow at Pleasanton, CA. I can get you the info if you are interested.

On the location of the neutral safety switch. The switch is on the steering colum for colum shift cars. And on the shifter for console shifter cars. I'd find where the switch is or was, and make shure it is bypassed. A little extra resistance in the connection could cause your trouble.
Also make shure your starter or solenoid is not just worn out. A lot of normal wear problems, bad connections, etc get blamed on heat soak.

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 03-08-2000).]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 00, 05:44 AM
 
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)

[This message has been edited by Art Rasmussen (edited 03-11-2000).]
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 00, 05:47 AM
 
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I agree with most everything that's been said here but would add one thing. Many aftermarket solenoids use a thin inner liner which can warp when hot. This will cause the plunger to hang up and the starter won't engage.
If you're sure you have eliminated as much resistance as possible from the system the quick fix is to by a Delco solenoid or get a "Glove heat shield" from the welding supply store and make a quicky heat shield with it and a little wire.
These heat shields are a rectangle about 5" by 6" made of some sort of cloth and foil with two straps on them, one elastic and one leather. They cost under $10.00.
I have used these for heat shields for all sorts of things and have even wrapped them right around an exhaust pipe to protect spark plug wires while on a trip once(I couldn't get 45 degree plug wire ends in Havasu, AZ ). The heat shields lasted 2,500 miles till I got home! Oddly enough I have never used one of these shields for welding!!!
Art Rasmussen
Art Rasmussen Design and Fabrication, Inc. WWW.HOTRODDINGTODAY.COM
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 13th, 00, 06:52 AM
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YES, Art. I had a starter hungry car yeara ago, and a real Delco solenoid is much better than parts store stuff!!



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