starter problem - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 02, 04:30 AM Thread Starter
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Marc
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 546
hi!
i ve got a problem when starting the car with a hot engine . during cold starts, there aren't any troubles, starter makes a good job. two iiiiick iiick and vrrooouuummm. but when engine's hot, the starter makes such a horrible noise, like it doesn't receive enough electricity from the battery. but the battery is brand new, and the alternator makes his job. when it's hot, the starter makes iiiiik iiiiik iiiikk very very slowly, sometimes engine doesn't fire at all, sometimes the starter then makes his normal noise but the engine doesn't fire.
do you have an idea? i guess it is a starter prob, but how can i fix it?
when running the engine has a smooth and regular idle.
thanks for your advices,

marc

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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 02, 08:22 AM
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David Pozzi
 
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Make sure all battery connections are clean and tight. The battery ground connection must go to the engine block and have a clean connection to bare metal.
The starter recieves it's ground connection through the engine block. The starter and block must be bare metal to bare metal there.

The starter solenoid must be in good condition internally. If the internal contacts are worn the starter will not get full power.
The starter brushes must be in good condition. They can be examined by removing the end cover from the starter. If the brushes wear down to the screws, it will drag and increase starter load enough to lower ignition coil voltage and prevent starting. The starter wil really jump and jerk, sometimes stick and needs to be struck with a hammer to get it going again with bad brushes. The interior dome light will almost go out during cranking if there is a really high amp draw of the starter, indicating a connection problem or internal starter shorting.

If the starter armature bushings are worn, the armature move enough to drag on the magnets and starter amp draw will increase.

When hot, try a jumper or remote starter button on the purple wire of the starter to battery +. MAKE SURE THE CAR IS OUT OF GEAR!
If there is no problem starting this way but there is a problem with the key starting it. You could have a bad neutral safety switch or if you have a 69 Camaro with transmission lockout switch, that uses the same switch on the steering column as the automatics use for neutral safety. This switch or the ignition switch can have the contacts inside burn, wear, or pit and the added resistance can sometimes prevent hot starting or the starter will only make a slight click.
If your starter is turning the engine but not turning it very fast, I'd suspect internal starter drag, worn brushes, bad connections-grounds, poor battery output, maybe a failing alternator is not charging the battery enough.

Many people will tell you to add a Ford type remote starter solenoid to your car. It will help cover up a bad ignition switch or other wiring deficiency in your car's wiring, if that is your problem.
I have usually solved it without going that far.
I like the standard motor products solenoid, Part # SS200. It is more heat resistant.
Weaker GM solenoid return springs are available for heat soak starter problems too.

Starters for low performance engines don't turn over high perf engines very well if at all. Make sure to use a Z/28 or Corvette engine starter for the "special high performance" engine.
All big block starters are ideal as they are all high torque starters. Just make sure the starter fits your flywheel size. usually staggered bolts on the starter are for large flywheel, in line bolts are for small flywheel.
David

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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 02, 05:56 AM
 
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I have this same problem on mine. It's called heat soak. If the car has headers the starter may become too hot to work. Try wrapping your header where it gets close to the starter that will probably help fix the problem. Keep the heat away from the starter.

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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 02, 04:40 PM
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David Pozzi
 
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I forgot to mention, GM sells aluminum heat shields for stock manifold applications. It bolts above the starter to shield the solenoid from heat.
David.

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old Aug 21st, 02, 01:53 AM
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Marc, I quit buying any kind of old antiquated GM style starters over 5 years ago because of their heat soak issues. They are 50 year old technology in it's most primative form.

The new mini starter technology is the way to go and a tremendous improvement on an old idea. The new minis are universal fit, lighter, supply more torque, require less current, allow more space, easier to install, easier on wiring and battery, and more importantly will not heat soak to oblivion....and sound cool as can be.

I highly recommend GM PP, Tuffstuff, Powermaster for these devices. It will take all the worry out of starting forever!

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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old Aug 21st, 02, 04:11 AM
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Jim
 
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I have that same heatsoak problem on my LM1 350. What is a good precedure to look up a mini? Do I worry about length of the unit as Ive read several posts about that. I start fine cold, then get to my folks house 7 miles away, stop for a cup of coffee and it drags like its -40 degrees outside, luckily it grabs on about the 4th slow turn.
Think that might be my next project, would hate to stop for gas and then have to wait an hour to start it again after it cools down.
click

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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old Aug 21st, 02, 12:59 PM
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Yea Mine was slow start when hot, but it never became a problem because my car never dies. Well, until today, when I just got my Vintage Air working, and had the car at a stoplight and the AC was on and she died. (Low Idle to begin with)... I couldn’t get it started.. Felt like a moron. It was lunchtime, so I pushed in into the Red Robin parking lot, and ate lunch. Came back and Bam! Starts like it should
I will be fixing this soon too.

-John
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