new lifters or Cam - Team Camaro Tech
Troubleshooting Diagnosing problems done here.

 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 01, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Clemente, Ca USA
Posts: 26
Unhappy

Appearently the guy who assembled the motor
in my car (prior to me buying it) didn't
grind flat the top of the bolt on the 461
heads of mine before he installed Pro-form
aluminum roller rockers. They clap pretty
hard, while I tried to adjust them, they kept
bleeding down. Does this mean I need:
1. Cam
2. lifters
3. new rockers (not rollers)

I'm a novice at all this and need to decide
fast. I'll have some help with the cam and
stuff, but I wondered would it be easier to
grind them myself? I was also told that some
lifters do bleed down, but they require a
differernt adjustment method.....
Any help
O
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 01, 08:19 AM
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You have confused me {that is easy} what do you mean by bolt? Are you adjusting the valves with the motor running?

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 01, 08:24 AM
DjD
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Sounds like he is talking about the tops of the rocker studs. To get a good lock with polylocks it's recomended the top of the stud have the dimple ground off or have the studs replaced with ones that have a flat surface.

Not sure how much of this is hype to sell new studs when switching to rollers with polylocks though!!

------------------
...Dennis
'69 RS Convertible w/SS trim
'96 Z28SS #1679 of 2410
"The Club"
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 01, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
 
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Location: San Clemente, Ca USA
Posts: 26
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oger: no, the motor wasn't running when I
tried the adjustment. I don't even know if
that would solve my bleed down prob?
Dennis: you hit the nail on the head (so to
speak) I am talking about the rocker studs.
Thanx, I didn't know what to call those.
anyway do you know if there are any kits
available for the grinding of those studs.
Here's the prob: when I tighten the cone
ponit set screw the entire nut below turns.
My mechanic friend says they wouldn't do
that if the rocker studs were ground flat.
Anyone know? Thanx for the replies.
O
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 01, 09:29 AM
DjD
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You should adjust with the screw loose and turning the nut. When you have them set where you want them turn the screw until contact is made, be sure to keep a boxed end on the nut. Now hold the nut in place and tighten the screw until you think you only need a 1/4 turn to finisn it off. Now turn the screw and tighten the nut into the screw to lock the two together.

I have heard guy complain that without flat topped studs your rocker adjustment will come loose and ARP makes them both flat and with the dimple!!

It just dawned on me, you say solid lifters then talk about them bleeding down!! Not sure what you're feeling!!

Here is the best reference for valve adjustment I can find... www.camaros.net/techref/ftecref17.html take a look see.

------------------
...Dennis
'69 RS Convertible w/SS trim
'96 Z28SS #1679 of 2410
"The Club"

[This message has been edited by DjD (edited 04-30-2001).]
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 01, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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Location: San Clemente, Ca USA
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Dennis dude, I don't think I said solid
lifters, if I did I'm an idiot because they
are hydraulic lifters with this cam
.436 valve lift (intake/exhaust) @ 300 deg
SAE j604d duration
Lash is HYD
gross lift @ cam is .291 (intake, exhaust)
224 deg cam lift @ .050 duration

The bleed down prob is when I tighten the
set screw for adjustment the pushrod turns
easier progressively. I read the sheet you
suggested(www.camaros.net/techref/ftecref17.html)
maybe the car has to be running when adjusting these valves, ie:
"Pump up"; This is the action of the lifter filling with oil. If there is a blockage in the oil lines (or the hole in the side of the lifter), it will never pump up
and the internal plunger will bottom out inside the lifter body. There is some disagreement in what I consider "pumped up". In my mind, a lifter is only
pumped up while there is oil pressure in the engine and this is only while it's running!
you also said that:
I have heard guy complain that without flat topped studs your rocker adjustment will come loose and ARP makes them both flat
and with the dimple!!
do ya think new studs will solve this, or are
my lifters in bad shape. If that is so, is
my cam dust......?
Thanx dude
O
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 01, 11:03 AM
DjD
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My bad!! There is another thread I was in about solid lifters just before yours!!!

If you get the lash set using the nut with the screw loose and the nut doesn't turn when you are tightening the screw it shouldn't put any more pressure on the pushrod and lifter. Shouldn't need to fire it up to adjust them. Lots of guys do the valve adjustment before putting on the intake in new builds making it easier to judge zero lash...

------------------
...Dennis
'69 RS Convertible w/SS trim
'96 Z28SS #1679 of 2410
"The Club"

[This message has been edited by DjD (edited 04-30-2001).]
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old May 1st, 01, 02:17 PM
 
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Location: Apex, NC USA
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Your studs ain't the problem. I have stock studs with roller rockers and polylocks and they dont back off on me. I run the **** out of my motor, racing every weekend and sometimes two or three times a week and they never back off I bend a pushrod every now and then but the rockers stay tight!

Also, just do your regular adjustment on the rockers and let'em go. I always do 1/4 turn past zero lash. I never adjust mine with it running because I'm deaf in one ear and can't center on the tapping of one rocker when the others are making a little noise too, tried it once and the car ran worse!

If your lifters are bad it'll missfire like crazy and backfire out the intake or exhaust, depends on what lifter is gone.

------------------
Chris Rose
1981 Camaro
355ci 2 barrel carb
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 01, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
 
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Location: San Clemente, Ca USA
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Thumbs up

Thanx camaro81:
I have no backfiring or miss fires...
When I set the rocker arm at 0 lash, the
pushrod will turn easier after about 10-15
seconds. My mechanic tells me that if that
happens then the lifters aren't pumped up,
which he says is giving me my bleed down
problem. The mechanic friend of mine (he
does this for a living, 20 yrs) isn't going
to make money off of me since I buy my own
parts and do most of the labor myself so I
don't see why he would lie. I'll try it again
this weekend, Thanx again everyone....
O

I posted the same thread on camaroz28.com
and got no answers
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 01, 07:17 PM
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Just remember, you will never get rid of all of the valvetrain tapping noise...roller rockers have a light tapping sound to them...some are worse than others. I have never tried the proforms so I cant comment on how noisy they are....but they will make some noise.

------------------
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 01, 07:53 AM
 
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Location: Apex, NC USA
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I've got the proform rollers and they are noisy

Moonshine, I was told the same thing, but when I started fiddling with everything it only got worse. If it runs alright, just let it go. I work with people that have been mechanics longer than I've been born and they tell me BS that I know is wrong ALL the time I just agree with them and walk off. If it wasn't for message boards my car be running like **** . When it comes to fixing something on your car, never accept just one persons opinion. Ask a bunch of people and form your own Thats why message boards are so helpful.

Btw, I quit posting in the tech sections at camaroz28.com because most of the reply's I got, if I got them at all, were way out in left field.


------------------
Chris Rose
1981 Camaro
355ci 2 barrel carb
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old May 4th, 01, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
 
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Location: San Clemente, Ca USA
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Talking

Thanx guys, I really appreciate it....
O
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old May 4th, 01, 08:03 PM
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Wink

i hope you put in new push rods. if you don't you may wear a hole rate through them. they need to wear together. i know it sounds wierd but its the trueth. my cousin just replaced 2 proforms after 250 miles because he didn't want to spend the extra cash,well he ended up spending it this time, since then NO problems!
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 01, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Clemente, Ca USA
Posts: 26
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I checked with the guy who built it and he
said he installed new hardened push rods,
but he didn't degree the cam. I think he
used the stock balancer on this. Would that
be something that would cause my bleed
down prob. Also, when I'm starting off on a
hill the engines diesels and wont give
adaquate power, I really have to flutter
the pedal to keep it from going dead. Other
than that it run pretty smooth. I rebuilt
the holley 600 about three months ago, for
some backfiring I was getting. That disappeared
any suggestions?
O
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