Starter Trauma - CLANK - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 06, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Jonny
 
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Cool Starter Trauma - CLANK

Hey guys,

Been having issues when I go to start my 69. I usually get a loud CLANK when I turn the key to the ignition position. I go back to disengage, then turn back to start and get another CLANK. A few clanks later it will finally turn over and purr fine.

Added a .060 shim to the ~.040 shim that was already in there to back the starter away from the flywheel. CLANK.

There is a whine after I finally get it to fire up. Exactly 4 seconds while the starter is still spinning after the motor fired. Not grinding but spinning. Normal?

Thought it might be a weak batt or batt connection, like not enough juice to start. Changed out batt/terminal hardware and tightened down real good. CLANK.

So, pulled my Jeep up next to and hooked up the jumpers to see if it was a weak batt. CLANK. Start. CLANK.

Not sure what to take a look at next. Bad solenoid?? That bastard is awefully close to the header.

Thanks in advance for the always good advice.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 06, 03:31 PM
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Rob.
 
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

It could be the solenoid or the starter drive, but I would shim it so it lines up.

Once you shim it up correctly, try it again, if it's out of alignment you could ruin the flywheel or ring gear.

Most places that sell starters will give you a alignment pin, and the instruction sheet with it. While you're there pick up some extra shims in case you need them.

It might take a few trys to get it shimed right, but well worth the effort.

Rob

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 06, 12:48 AM
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

Yeah, It sounds like an alignment problem. The "Clank" you hear is the Bendix gear hitting the flywheel. How is the Ring gear on the flywheel? Check to see if it is not worn or missing any teeth off the gear. Also, get a support bracket at the rear of the starter if you don't have one. It keeps the starter from jumping around.

67 RS Camaro 327/ 350 Holley 650cfm > Edelbrock Performer Intake > Pertronix Ignition > Accel Super Stock Coil and Wires > Hedman Hedders > Hotchkis Performance Springs > 15" Rallys all around


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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 06, 01:14 AM
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Marc
 
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

Hi !

I have kind the same problem, exept on my case it doesn't seem to be the starter hitting the flywheel, it is like a horrible noise like the engine wants to crank in the wrong rotation and against the starter causing the starter to groan of pain, litteraly.

The very supprising think is that it doesn't do it everytime. Sometimes it starts just fine.

I tried two different starters, the newly rebuilt original one and a mini starter that i shimmed correctly.
THe mini starter makes a better job but still this problem happens. It is really like it doesn't get enough power to turn the flywheel.

I have a good battery but maybe it is too little. All electrical connections are new.

Any change i made to the engine since the previous configuration when i could crank without problem is : changing all bottom up and adding compression with a thinner head gasket.

I am confused. I am at the point I am scared to turn the ignition key.

Marc

Camaro 1968, propane 327ci, Big Brake, Hotchkis, T56
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 06, 01:47 AM
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

Marc, How big is the battery? Does it have enough CCA's (Cold Cranking Amps) to turn over the engine? It sounds like you have a high compression motor needing more power to the starter motor to turn the flywheel. Is it easier to start the car in the morning when it is cold or after the car warms up or no difference at all? I would go with a bigger battery and see if that helps.

67 RS Camaro 327/ 350 Holley 650cfm > Edelbrock Performer Intake > Pertronix Ignition > Accel Super Stock Coil and Wires > Hedman Hedders > Hotchkis Performance Springs > 15" Rallys all around


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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 18th, 06, 12:18 AM
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Marc
 
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

Well yes a larger battery helps but the bad noise remains.
Now this bad noise seems to comes from internal parts in the starter, it is defenetly a gears noise.
Should these noise be there because the starter suffered so much from some bad cranking trials before I changed the battery?

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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 18th, 06, 03:03 AM
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Marc
 
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

I still have to buy a new battery, as for some trials I put a bigger battery which is from a donor car...
What Amp h and battery power capacity should I need to ensure no problems in the futur? SBC with 10:1 compression.

Thanks

Camaro 1968, propane 327ci, Big Brake, Hotchkis, T56
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 06, 09:55 PM
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

I would say something in the 800 CCA's range. The bigger the better.

67 RS Camaro 327/ 350 Holley 650cfm > Edelbrock Performer Intake > Pertronix Ignition > Accel Super Stock Coil and Wires > Hedman Hedders > Hotchkis Performance Springs > 15" Rallys all around


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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 06, 01:52 PM
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

Are u using the correct starter mounting bolts? If not get the new correct ones

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 06, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Jonny
 
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

Ring gear looks very good. No teeth missing.

I'm thinking this is an alignment problem, but more so than shims can help out?? Starter gear looks like it engages VERY tightly, and only into about half the width of the flywheel. I've read:

https://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64456

And know about the feeler gage & paperclips. Not sure I can do this as it's very tight in there.

There is a cover over the starter gear with a shaft between the cover and the starter housing the gear moves along. Man, the thick, outer end of that shaft is very close to the flywheel teeth. Prob. .030 or less. It seems like I need to move the starter farther away from the motor, and more towards the rear of the car.

So far I have (2) .060 shims in there, spanning both bolts. Any ideas how to position this thing right? Shim one side like crazy? Offset bolts on a 350 SB.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 06, 11:50 PM
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

I think what may be happening is that the pinion stop is missing or worn out on your satrter. This is what prevents the starter overrunning clutch from hitting the ring gear on the flywheel, Probably the CLANK you hear. It's easy enough to pop the starter out and see if the stop and snap ring is missing. Another possibility is that the nose of the starter where the pinion stop hits is worn or damaged.

As far as the starter not spinning every turn of the key.....There is a copper disk on a plunger in the switch end of the solenoid that makes contact when the starter bendix is engaged. This passes current from the + battery cable on the solenoid to the starter motor windings. This copper disk can burn, pit, wear, corrode, get ugly etc. Easiest thing would be to replace the solenoid, however they used to sell replacements parts to over haul your unit. ( I dont know if they still do, I havent done one in quite a while.) The disk and contacts were sold over the parts counter in the "Help" packaging. Open up the switch end. If the old disk isnt too bad you can flip it over. Clean the contact points. reassemble and be good to go.

Oh, and if the bendix isnt releasing when the key is released (engine starts) it may be that the spiral splines that the bendix slides on are gunked up. If there isnt any obvious damage to the shaft or the return spring, a good cleaning / overhaul can cure that......Jb


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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 06, 01:09 AM
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

Quote:
it may be that the spiral splines that the bendix slides on are gunked up. If there isnt any obvious damage to the shaft or the return spring, a good cleaning / overhaul can cure that......Jb
And dont oil the splines think that will make then run smooth...it doesnt.
Reassemble clean and dry.
I and many others have been caught out by that...once lol.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 06, 01:49 AM
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

Well, I guess the bottom line is to try out a different starter and see if that solves the problem. It's a process of elimination. Chances are that the starter might have multiple problems. You should just be able to install a new one without any problems.

67 RS Camaro 327/ 350 Holley 650cfm > Edelbrock Performer Intake > Pertronix Ignition > Accel Super Stock Coil and Wires > Hedman Hedders > Hotchkis Performance Springs > 15" Rallys all around


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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 06, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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Jonny
 
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

Ah man, Johnny B, great pic. I should have referenced that one from the Service Manual when i was typing up my other messages.

Pinion stop is still there. In fact, my flywheel is REALLY close to the pinion stop. Like .030 close. Is this normal?? This whole starter & solenoid is pretty new.

I'll try replacing the solenoid and see how I make out. I'll inspect the starter then too. Thanks to all for the help!!!

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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 29th, 06, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Jonny
 
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Re: Starter Trauma - CLANK

Well, replaced the solenoid today and now, no CLANK or anything! I have juice at the battery but no action or sound when I engage the ignition. Tried to jump, and same result. Any ideas? Will double check all connection points. Hoping to fix this today!! HELP!!
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