Won't start in the mornings - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 06, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Won't start in the mornings

1st; Thanks in advance, if anyone can help me diagnose this problem and my boss will be happy if I can show up on time for a change.
I have a 77 LT, 305 (I think, can't find anything that tells me the original engine isn't still there) that has been getting real hard to start the last few mornings. Takes anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour or more to get her to start and then she startes everytime and runs fine foir the rest of the day. Cranks fine and gets fuel and pretty sure fire, hard to see when im trying to get her to start, but never even tries to kick over, until it finally does. Thought coil, so replaced it and it started right up, but the next day same thing. Had some minor cracks in rubber fuel line so replaced that, same thing. Tune-up; Plugs, wires, cap and rotor all new as well. Thinkin maybe electric choke (Edelbrock #1406 600 cfm) problem, (but the choke is closed every morning,) or ignition module, but really have no idea.
I hope someone has an Idea. Someone told me that it might be the accel ignition setup, don't know how long its been in the car, and to trash it for MSD. Is that a good idea?
I hope this is a common problem with an easy fix, please help.
Thanks, Dwight
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 06, 09:19 PM
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Steven
 
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Re: Won't start in the mornings

a 1406 is not a stock 77 camaro carb, so it appears that your intake and carb were changed at some point in time ... Probably was originally a 2bbl rochester ... You were a bit confusing explaining the turning over issue, but I think you are saying that the car turns over...just take forever before it will start ... Some things to do (1) Remove air cleaner and check for gas squirting before you attempt to start the car in the morning ...if no gas, the carb is leaking down... (2) fuel pump effectively moving gas ??? (3) Check for Vac leak (4) Check Oil Level/smell ...If car is flooding, excess fuel will end up in oil (5) Do you get lots of black smoke on startup??? If yes, rich or flooding condition is occuring .. (6) Weak spark ... If you are going to change it, consider a basic HEI ...they work very well (7) recheck your timing once you get it running and warm ... Now, all of that being said, if you are cranking for 30 minutes, I would think that you must be flooding on initial attempts to start. Older carb cars do require some pedal feathering when trying to start...they are not like the newer fuel injected engines that are comp controlled when starting. The choke wil set the 1st time the gas pedal is pressed .. You may work it a little when trying to crank, but remember gas is squirting each time you press ... after a few seconds, just hold it to floor is it hasn't started... I had a 1406 on my 55 recently and it was always easy starting ...
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 06, 03:06 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Won't start in the mornings

Thanks for your reply. Let me try and be a bit more clear. After the initial start in the mornings, you can reach in the window and touch the key and its up and running, all day long. It's only after sitting all night that there is any problem. That being said, it can sit all day while I'm at work and it starts fine at the end of the day. This tells me that it has something to do with the cool weather in the morning, right? But I have noticed alot of condensation coming out the exhaust after start-up lately, don't know if that could be part of the problem or not. Everything you suggested I check, I have. Everything seems ok, when the car starts and when it doesn't, nothing seems to work correct. Anyway, now none of the dash gages are working, so I blew a fuse or shorted something out yesturday. Something else to look at while I'm at work today, lol.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 06, 04:28 AM
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Steven
 
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Re: Won't start in the mornings

I know you said the choke closes ..Have you tried the initial start with the air cleaner off ? Making sure air cleaner is not interfering with choke operation.. Also, throw on a timing light ( need a buddy on this one ) to check/verify spark during initial starting ... Now, if fuel and spark are present ( and we know air is present ), it becomes an issue of right fuel/air ratio and hot enough spark. Can you borrow a carb and/or dist to do a swap-out test? Gee man, you may have to start getting up earlier ...lol One thing that happens once you get the carring is that heat is generated and that could dry out any under-hood condensation issues. Inspect under dist cap and other ignition related area for wetness before attempting to start ..and, once the car is running, try smothering the carb by covering it with both hands ...If the car doesn't skip a beat so to speak, then there is a vacuum leak.. Vacuum leaks are a cold start issue because they lean the mixture out more ...
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 06, 05:31 AM
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Smile Re: Won't start in the mornings

Do you just pump the gas once in the morning to set the choke? I always pump mine 2-3 times and hold it 1/4-1/2 way down before i hit the starter and it fires up every time.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 06, 07:17 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Won't start in the mornings

So Friday at work, I turned the electric choke back to where it was very lean and never closed all the way at all. My thought was that it wasn't opening fast enough and therefore flooding. Saturday morning, pulled the air cleaner off so I could watch what was going on and pulled the throttle linkage once to set the choke. Got in and it started right up with no problem. My thought is that the heating element in the choke isn't working, but we will see if it starts today. lol Thanks for your ideas and thoughts.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 06, 09:57 AM
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Steven
 
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Re: Won't start in the mornings

ok you are on your way to getting to work on time ... The choke should partially pull off as soon as the car starts and then open all of the way as soon as it has had ample warming time. Use a meter to determine that you are getting voltage at the choke hook-up. To set the choke, get the car fully warm, back off the choke to lean, then roll back to rich just enough to detect movement in the choke plate and linkage. Set it there insuring that choke plate is fully open. Use the notches on the adjustment assemble to benchmark for future adjuatments. On some cars you need to adjust a notch or 2 richer in warm months to keep idle up until engine get warm. anyway, glad you are rolling!
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 06, 01:50 PM
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Steps
 
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Re: Won't start in the mornings

Bfore converting to LPG, I had a holley spread bore...early morning atarts often meant a quick squirt of 'engine start'. I was trying to sort the prob, but only had 1 go each day cause once fired no probs.
! morning I removed the choke...didnt put nack on, problem disappeared.
26 yrs on still have no choke.
Early morn Winter will get down to -3 deg C...occassionally
For the 1st 30 secs I have to let it idle high, then roll up the driveway in gear(about 50 yds)then it runs fine.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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