Please help Major starter issues - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 06, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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Angry Please help Major starter issues

Ok so here we go. Chevy 383 blue print motor. Brand new. Brand new 168 tooth fly wheel from classic chevy 5 speed. Brand new jegs mini starter.

Problem first few times it started no problem. After taking it for a little drive the starter would start the car sometimes and sometimes would just go whiirrrrr. then before i could shim it it turned to sometimes it would crank and then go whirrrrr.

Started shimming, 1st i went out and shimmed both bolts in 1/64 increments. Went till i got a horrible grinding noise instead of a whirrr. took those all out and then started shimming the outside bolt only. Thought i had it as it craked for a few seconds but back to popping out and going whirrr. Now all i get is a click whirrrr like it is just hitting the flywheel. Everything is brand new including the bolts. i dont know what else to do.

Would going to a full size starter solve this, Is the jegs mini starter just that crappy. It appears that i have a little where on the fly wheel teeth at this point but nothing to horrible. Im not missing any teeth so as long as i can get a starter to engage properly it should be fine. Please help fast

And the flywheel is installed properly facing the appropriate direction.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 06, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

Another thought,
It has been brought to my attention that if the timing got advanced a little to much by accident that it could cause a pressure build up that then becomes to much for the starter and causes it to kick out, This could also explain the cold start problem i have been having and also could cause the dieseling issue at shut off, Any thoughts
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 06, 08:44 PM
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

the timing being too far advanced can cause the starter to audible labor, or engage but crank very slowly, but wouldn't cause the starter not to engage.





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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 06, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

the starter almost always engages but does disengage after a little cranking over. Thaats why i think it could be the timing, that and the fact i have shimmed every direction possible in all sorts of increments. So either the brand new starter is garbage or it is another issue pehaps timing
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 06, 09:15 PM
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

anyway you can get in there and look at the gear mesh?





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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 06, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

nope its so tight that im afraid i may have to pull the motor and trans just to have enough access to seperate the bellhousing.
I can tell that when it disengages that it it wearing on the front portion of the flywheel. and like i said, i have tried all shim combos on both bolts and then on the outer bolt. The only thing that i have not tried is some on both and some on 1 but i think just cancels itself out
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 06, 09:23 PM
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

The best I can describe hard starting due to over advanced..it sort of sounds like
huha...huha laboured
Try loosening of the dizzy and retarding a little.
A combo of overadvanced (thu not dramatically) hi compression (not ratios) and a under powered (undercharged) battery will have the same effect

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 06, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

it turns over ok as long as i have the charger on it at this point, lol.
but it does turn over just fine then stops and goes whiirrrr no matter wich way i shim it that never gets better. Wont hurt to try cause my next step is a different starter then a new fly wheel wich would be a last resort as that will cost me shop labor and loose the profit as this is a customer car
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 06, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

hey is retarding counterclockwise on the 383
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 16th, 06, 05:59 AM
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

moving the vac advance can toward the firewall (clockwise) will retard the timing, toward the carb will advance it.





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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 16th, 06, 06:20 AM
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

Just pull and grd. the coil wire or remove the pos wire from the coil to stop the spark and see if it cranks OK. If not timeing is not your problem. If that fixes it I would start backing down the timing untill the problem is gone. Also make sure your mech. advance is not sticking.

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 16th, 06, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

now here may be the retard of the week type of question.
The vaccum advance came plugged off from the factory with tis motor, and we (I) never plugged it into anything, Would this cause an issue, Like cold start, dieseling at shut off and possibly making the engine act like it is so advanced that it would cause this issue and force the starter to jump out. Then the next question is if all this is true where do i plug it in,

Please excuse my ignorance, i have been dealing with fuel injection so long that i have lost some of my knowledge on carborated cars

oh ya and forgive me father if i have sinned
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 16th, 06, 10:37 AM
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

no, the vacaum advance wouldn't cause that type of problem, it really has nothing to do until the car is actually running. You should hook it up, but lets get it started first.





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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 16th, 06, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Please help Major starter issues

Well boys and girls, it appears that all options have been exhausted and no matter what the jegs mini starter only engages the front portion of the flywheel and that is the issue. Jegs feels it is a faulty starter, I know and have triple checked that the flywheel is in the right way, and if it was flipped it would be farther away, There is also only 1 shim on the starter but 1/64 is not enough to make a difference since it needs to be more like 1/4 of an inch. From what i can tell the starter gear does not engage past the first 1/4-1/3 of the flywheel gear.
Im gonna get the GM mini starter from GM and be done with it. My cousin who has been a wrench for 30 years and built a few gm hotrods says after fighting a napa starter and some other mini starter that he went straight to gm for their mini and has not had a single issue ever in 5 years and it never needed a shim. I'll let ya all know how it goes.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 21st, 06, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Re: Please help Major starter issues

so after looking at and inspecting the new GM performance parts starter i thought i was screwed. I operated both the GM and Jegs starters on the bench and mic'd how far out the bendix gear came and they were identical. and the thickness and height of both mounting plates were the same. While staring at the 2 starters side by side in frustration the problem came into clear view. the mounting blocks have holes drilled into them, but the jegs starter had the holes drilled towards the front of the block, the center line was about 5/16 out. this in turn pulled the starter blockaway from the flywheel by 5/16 of an inch and would not allow the bendix gear to engage the flywheel enough. in return trashing the flywheel. I installed the GM performance parts starter and it fired up the first time, NO SHIMS, no screwing around just plug and play.

Be careful with jegs branded parts. the quality is just not there. the gm part cost me 210 at the dealer and thats only 10 bucks more so i dont ruin a brandnew motor and flywheel. seems worth it to me.

check it out. THe gm starter is on the left, look close you will see how off center the jegs starter is

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