1969 Camaro won't start up right away - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 06, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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Tim
 
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1969 Camaro won't start up right away

The gremlins are at it again....Car was running great the other day. Wife takes it out and it won't start up. She sees that somehow the alternator belt flies off. She gets it put back on and she gets the car home. I take car out about 3 days later and she is really hard to start. Turns over fine, but acts like it isn't getting any fuel. It has a 600 cfm holley on it with an electric choke that isn't hooked up (haven't gotten around to get it fixed correctly yet) and I ended up putting a little gas down the carb and she fired instantly.
When the car warms up, it is fine. So I am guessing that it probably is the choke. I also thought that maybe the fuel pump is a little weak...
I got the car in May, so I don't know alot of history about the car as far as cam duration and lift. So I really don't know what to set the timing at either.
We set the timing when I got the most vacuum off of the carb and retarded it some because it would not start very easily. When the car is about at 140-160 degrees, it will start without even having to touch the gas pedal.
So how should I go about getting the timing set correctly? The car runs like a dream when she is warmed up. Just a pain to start, so I know I need to get the choke done, but I also have read about guys disconnecting the choke as well.....
Any opinions or ideas?

Ratbikeharley
Wrenching endlessly on my wife's 1969 Camaro.
Keeping her happy is easier than keeping the car running!
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 06, 09:15 PM
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Re: 1969 Camaro won't start up right away

Do you have the choke wired open now? If you don't want to run with a choke, it has to be wired open. Maybe something came loose. I used to live in Ohio. I would think a choke is mandatory with the cold weather. I like the idea of the wife getting the belt back on. She sounds like a keeper. Mine would have called and said come get your car.
As far as your timing, I would look at setting the total timing between 32 & 36 and see where that puts your initial at.

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 06, 07:06 AM
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Re: 1969 Camaro won't start up right away

Well, you say it runs fine when warmed up, but it's hard to start when cold???? You've answered your own question. It's all in the choke. The electric choke is super easy to hook up, and you already have it on your carb, so what are you waiting for? Hook up the choke and it will start OK when cold.

For cold start (with no choke), you need to pump the gas pedal numerous times (for extra fuel) and then keep working the pedal to keep the engine running til it warms up. I'll bet every single person on this web site has had at least one carbureted hot rod with no choke, LOL................

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 06, 09:51 AM
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Re: 1969 Camaro won't start up right away

diddo.

2 hot rods, no choke. pump...rest...pump...rest...pump...turn key, pump like crazy,,,dies, repeat...

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 06, 10:41 AM
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Re: 1969 Camaro won't start up right away

Set timing as mentioned above, with the vac advance disconnected.
That will put u in the ball park.
A cold engine, below ambeant temps of 5 deg C needs a rich mixture, hence that is what the choke is for..
No choke, turn over and pump 2 or 3 times, then hold the acceleartor down, even between turning over..
Im not familar with Ohio weather (im in NZ) but I assume it is similar to weather a few 100 miles sth of us here...u will need a choke in winter.
I dont have a choke, when 'down sth" (winter snow)I give a quick squirt of ether in the carb, and she fires straight up

Continuous pumping causes flooding... to 'unflood' an engine, again simply hold the accelerator down to 'pump' the access fuel out.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 07, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Tim
 
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Re: 1969 Camaro won't start up right away

When trying to start it up, it won't even fire or attempt to start. It just turns over. Weather here has been crazy. Lately it has been 50-63 during day and low of like 35-50 sometimes. It should fire up quickly even with out a choke on when its in the mid-50's. I have an old 78 Blazer and I can attest to having to pump then rest then pump and then fire it up then repeat as needed.
But at mid 50 degree weather, it should fire up.

Now, I seem to have a short somewhere because the battery is completely dead.
I'm going to buy a good battery and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on which to buy. I plan on buying a battery tender to keep a good charge in it until I can chase down the source of the short.
Brother-in-law seems to think that it is the starter or something else drawing the juice.
I know I need to replace the wiring in it, but I was really hoping to wait for another year or two until I have the $$$ to get it painted first and replace the wiring while she's all stripped anyhow.

Thanks for the input...any other ideas on a good battery except for the Optima...can't afford to pay $250 for a battery.
What about cranking amps?
Is there an overkill?

Ratbikeharley
Wrenching endlessly on my wife's 1969 Camaro.
Keeping her happy is easier than keeping the car running!
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 07, 04:51 AM
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Re: 1969 Camaro won't start up right away

First off...if the wiring is that bad, its the first thing I would fix/change. A nice new paint job can be ruined when the car catches on fire because of a short somewhere.
Go to Sears and get a $75.00 Diehard battery for now. Two year FULL replacement warranty. You kill it, bring it back.,,,can't go wrong.

Kev
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 07, 06:12 AM
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Re: 1969 Camaro won't start up right away

While it's certainly possible to wear the battery down from excessive cranking, the starter is not drawing current unless it is being used. The alternator, sure, the regulator, maybe, but not the starter.

You need to test the charging voltage with the car running to verify the alternator is functional, and test for a current draw when everything is off.
There are instructions in the electrical basics sticky on how to do this, you'll need a voltmeter costing between 10 and 35 dollars, instructions in the basics on how to use it.

As for the starting problem, you need motion (which you have when the battery is charged) fuel, and spark. If she fires when you pour a lil gas down the carb, I'd guess she has spark.

First thing I would do is check the fuel level in the bowls, before attempting a cold start. Jack the throttle and observe if fuel squirts out the pump squirters (top, center, front of primary's) unscrew the "checking screws" in the side of the fuel bowls and see if you can see fuel. Loosen a lower bowl screw, does fuel come out?

Assuming you prove it's dry, the next quesion would be "where is it going?" followed shortly by "why isn't the fuel pump filling it back up right away?"





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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 8th, 07, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Tim
 
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Re: 1969 Camaro won't start up right away

I have fuel in bowls. We set the fuel level using the sight plugs. I had torn it all the way down due to debris in the needle seat. I do have fuel squirting. So when I get a battery, I will get it running and get the electric choke fixed and then get the tester out to see where I am losing all the current.
I want to replace the wiring when it is stripped down after being painted. Just want to wait a little while longer.

So what about cranking amps. 650,750 or 1000? Overkill???

Ratbikeharley
Wrenching endlessly on my wife's 1969 Camaro.
Keeping her happy is easier than keeping the car running!
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 8th, 07, 01:32 PM
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Re: 1969 Camaro won't start up right away

Tim,
You should be fine with 700 amp ....

Kev
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 8th, 07, 06:47 PM
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Re: 1969 Camaro won't start up right away

I used to live in Cleveland and had an old dodge with no choke. In the winter i would have to pump it about 8 or 9 times before even attempting to start it. When i did hit it,it would always start right up but would pop,and backfire and raise hell until it warmed up a little then it would go on down the road.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 8th, 07, 11:07 PM
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Re: 1969 Camaro won't start up right away

This thread is my youth.
A thorough understanding of Qjets got me a second date with my wife. She would sit in the parking lot of our 911 center trying to get her 70 Monte Carlo to run smooth enough to put in gear and go home after her shift. I saw the black smoke and told her to pop the hood. (she trusted me ) The dash-pot was bad and the divorced choke was sticky. I told her after it warmed up, to go home and I would meet her with the parts. An hour later that car ran perfect until the day we sold it after our 5th anniversary.
Moral; You need a choke.
P.S. She retires next week!

One owner 69 Camaro,(yep, bought it new
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