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Novice EFI install

6K views 27 replies 7 participants last post by  SIDEWAYS 
#1 ·
I have procrastinated long enough. Tomorrow I will begin the tear down of my current carb set up which is running the best it has ever ran since I installed my Mark Jones 496. We are finally getting some summer so this is not helping. I am enjoying cruising. I will work some evening to try to get this conversion done before winter flies. I will go nuts if I can't try it out before the snow comes.
Any way I consider myself a novice and an absolute newby when it comes to efi.I will try to update this as my install progresses. It will be a Holley HP efi sequential mpfi system. I have most of the pieces to start so lets see how it goes. I am counting on you guys to help me out.

Here goes...

I have port matched the intake to the gaskets.The Edelbrock oval port intake was originally 1.7 X 1.9. I have bored it out to 1.9 x2.1. The bit kept loading up, It took more time to clean the bit then grind the intake!
I have modified the throttle linkage and fuel rail for clearance. I needed to add a spacer under the throttle body and trim some material off of the fuel rail. The linkage got turned inside out and I built a new piece of the linkage to square things up. Powder coated the intake and rails.(I wasn't planning that but they were rough and it help hide my grinding on the rail).I have installed a good chuck of s.s. 1/2 hard line beside my 3/8 existing line that will become my return. Built a mount for my ecu that will be in the engine bay.
I will go for one last ride tomorrow if the weather permits and start draining fluid tomorrow nite.
Pic 1 is what I am starting with.
pic 2 the new linkage piece I built. I only had hand tools. Guess which piece I built !
3 I am trying to show the clearance I have
The rest are pics I like.

I am handy but remember I am a NOVICE. If you see this project going south let me know!
 

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#2 ·
There's always going to be some modding/grinding getting these things installed, especially under a stock hood. I wonder if in the the end, I should of ran the Victor intake like you did rather than the Holley, as the Holley intake is very high. I did get the thing under the hood afterall.

Keep at it - you will be VERY happy once she's up and running.

PS - how about bending-up some metal tubing (like Holley does) for the end rail connections rather than have all the hose?
 
#3 ·
I have some left over s.s 1/2 tubing, I'll see what I have for 3/8's tubing and fittings. My 10 dollar bender might not be up to the task!
I enjoy modding. I expect it on anything I buy aftermarket.

I am counting on you Vince to get me through this!
 
#5 ·
I am going to do a Holley HP MPFI on my 427ci 550hp SBC. I am looking to use LS1 coils and use a 60-2 crank trigger and a vortec cam signal distributor with a flat cap on it, so I ca run sequential.
Keep us posted
 
#6 ·
Not much to report .
Installed the ecu (yep the new Holley) on to my shaker. It now has another use other then being a boat anchor.
Finished welding up the lower air filter housing so it will clear the linkage. I glued a 4150 flange to the 4500 filter housing. The housing has to be clocked with the linkage to work.
Tweaked the mounts to get my coil to sit on the manifold. I am a little concerned about electrical noise as there will be a lot wires in that area.
I will pull the fuel tank out tonite and maybe the seats so I can run some wiring later under the carpet to the back where my battery and msd box are.
 

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#9 ·
I got a few things done. New fuel tank is in and the fuel lines are done except for two short line to and from the fuel rails. Wired in the new fuel pump and run some wires from the battery in the back to the firewall for the main power for the ecu, fuel pump relay and points wire for the MSD. Added a few more wires to the main harness including a usb cable. Out came the fuel pressure gauge and Dakota digital fan control. The fuel pressure will be bit higher now and the computer will control the fans.I am leaving in my afr gauge for now. I will compare it to the Holley wideband on the other side. Pulled off the old manifold and started prepping it for the new one I hope to throw on tomorrow. I'll try to get the harness installed as well if I get time.
Couple of shots of the new tank, some plumbing including a vent filter and new hard line, completed wiring harness and gutted engine bay.
 

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#10 ·
Got up early and got the intake on before parenting and work took over. Seemed like it went pretty straight forward. All the bolts fell in pretty easy. It was my first time changing a manifold so it was a little stressful. No leaks I hope. I got a hour or so in tonight installing the wiring harness. I have it half tore apart now as nothing fit the way I was planning it to. I imagine another hour or so and I will have it routed better and cleaned up. It is getting very tight back there now. On a positive note the throttle linkage bolted right up and works very well. The air filter also fits fine. I think another 3,4 hours of wiring ,a hour for a fuel line and hour to add/change fluids I should be getting close. I got a computer geek to fix up my ol laptop yesterday and got it back tonight. It seems to have perked right up so hopefully it will do the trick when start up comes around.
 

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#11 ·
Looks good Dan. Where did those fuel rails come from? Sexy for sure. When your ready to fire it up, just download the closet fuel/ign map and it will run excellent right from the get go. Only thing you will need to do is add timing for your cruise rpm (to sim vac advance) and tweak the idle AFR/ign and your good!!!
 
#12 ·
DONE!
I have all the wiring completed, fuel lines are finished.Changed oil,put antifreeze back in and dumped 10 gallons of fuel in the new tank. I have a little tiding up to do but not bad. I will reread the start up instructions tonight and read up on this FAST distributor. I'm a little lost where to set it or how. I dont think I will turn the key tomorrow as it is Thanksgiving and we are invited out. I need another set of eyes and hands also to look for fuel leaks and check timing as it gets turned over.
Now I need to get ready to trouble shoot and put my basic computer skills to the test.

Vince, Edlebrock fuel rails turned inside out.
 

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#13 ·
Nothing exciting to report. Keyed the system up without the injectors hooked up. Found 2 fuel leaks. One was in one of those spots you prey it wouldn't be. Anyway it is all fixed up. I am now waiting for help. A second set of eyes to check timing when I turn it over and double check leaks.Down loaded the base global folder into the ecu. All my sensors seem to be up and running. Did a throttle position autoset.
I am finding the instructions for the FAST distributor a little confusing. Hopefully tomorrow night I will make noise.
 
#14 ·
Finally was able to get back at it late this afternoon.I was ready to turn the key and was waiting for help so someone could verify cranking timing. Well we spun it over and over.....nothing no spark.
I verified I have spark going into the distributor but nothing coming out. I am running the FAST dual sync. I was scared of the ignition before I started and here it has bit me already.
Any ideas on the problem?
 
#15 ·
Hey Dan,
This is really the only part of the installation that is a little tricky. The FAST dist comes set up for a 50 degree crank reference angle. Make sure that the setting in your software is at 50 degrees. Disconnect the coil!!! Then set your number one cylinder to 50 degrees BTDC on the compression stroke. Line the rotor up with the #1 terminal on the cap and install the dist. The Dist comes with a red wire for power to the dist. This should be on a circuit that is hot in the start and run positions of the key. There are two LEDs that will light up on the dist, One for cam signal and one crank signal. The cam signal is on the left and the crank signal is on the right. With power to the dist, rotate the base back and forth until the cam signal LED lights. Now rotate the dist counter-clockwise until the first crank signal lights the crank LED. Rotate the dist back and forth to find the leading edge of the signal. Tighten down the dist. The light should flicker as you move the dist back and forth. Put everything back together and start the car. Check your timing to the timing tables in your software just to make sure. Tip: temp set your timing in the idle area of your table to a constant number so that it doesn't jump around when you are checking it. Pretty easy, just a little confusing.
 
#16 ·
Yep ,followed those directions.Moved the module from 0 to the 50 degree position in the dist. Cam and crank lights are working. locked it down on the leading edge of the crank signal. Confirmed the rotor is touching the cap. The Holley instructions are slightly different. They want the leading edge of the second crank light after the cam light. Tried both ways. No difference.
I cant understand even if I have things totally messed up I should still see spark on a plug wire.
 
#17 ·
The fast dist should have come in the 50 degree position when purchased. You might want to check that you didn't move the pickup to the 1 degree position. I almost changed my dist from 50 to 1 degree when I first intalled it. If the Holley system is using the second crank light the crank ref angle would add 90 degrees to the 50 degrees from the distributor. Does the program indicate 140 degrees on the ref angle? I would think that if they were using the second light you would want to set the dist to 1 degree and the crank ref angle to 90. A good check to make sure things are right is the rotor should be pointing at the #1 terminal somewhere around 30 degrees BTDC.
 
#18 ·
I believe it came in the 0/1 degree position. I could be wrong. I removed the 2 screws and moved the module about 1/2 an inch to the right. The screw holes indicated 50.
I am presently using the second light as per Holley. I am using the 50 reference angle in the software as per Holley. The rotor is pointing at #1 around 30btdc.

I appreciate your help so far Joe. Thank you.
 
#19 ·
It sounds like you have everything correct. The coil is sparking and no spark is coming out the other end??
 
#20 · (Edited)
"It sounds like you have everything correct. "

YEP...everything is correct.
I was concentrating on getting crank timing and getting nothing. I checked for spark at the plug and to my surprise it was there! Not as much as at the coil but it was there.
Plugged the injector harness in and VROOOM!
I had 25 degrees so I twisted the dist to match the ecu at 31.
I have no idea why the light would not pick up the spark???

Anyway it is running .:hurray:
Now I guess it is time for the ecu to learn the engine.
 
#22 ·
I thought I had my carb set up pretty good....NOPE!
I had a chance to go for a cruise and I am amazed how well it ran.I am so impressed. I would say it may be the best purchase I have ever made for my car. Yes it was very expensive. I haven't added all the reciepts up yet (I'm a little scared to). I would guess it is pushing 5 bills with the fuel tank being 1200.
The computer has just started learning my engine and already cold start up idle is amazing. I do have lean spikes when taking off and shifting gears. I'm not sure if it will fix this for me or if I need to add inrichment.
Hopefully I can get a friend and go for a cruise and have my laptop in hand to tune as we go. I have already figured out my tuning will be direction sensitive. The sun makes it almost impossible to see the screen!
The other issue I having is my new fuel sender goes a little wonky from time to time. I took a short cut and connected the ground to the ground of the fuel pump that goes straight to the battery. When it acts up it it messes with the fuel pump and the car will not start. I will change the ground back to the chassis. Still can't believe that would cause this issue.

All in all this install went great. Everything fit under the hood, the throttle linkage turned out to be a piece of cake. The wiring was really easy.I just followed the Holley instructions taking no short cuts (except for fuel sender ground!), ran the harness and plugged everything in. It wasn't that tough.
I would like to thank guys on both TC forums. Doug F for answering my emails quickly and suggesting Moore Racecraft. Dennis's service so far has been outstanding. He helped me trouble shoot on his weekend and evenings. Turned out I had nothing to trouble shoot. If I would have just checked spark the old fashion way from the start I would have been running right off the bat!

Once you go efi I cant see anyone going back.
 
#23 ·
My lean spikes when shifting and taking off have all but appear to be gone. I added fuel to the ae vs tps rate of change and some ecu learning seemed to have cleaned it right up. Now it is time to check some fuel mileage and do some WOT testing.
Seat of the pants tells me I am down on power a bit so far but way up on overall performance through the entire rpm range.
 
#24 ·
Hi Dan, don't mean to crash the thread but I was wondering how you came to the decision to go with the Holley system? Your setup looks great and would be something I'd like to do as well. I have a lot of GN friends that have been messing with EFI for a while but they use the OEM intake systems while we have to start from scratch (at least 1st gen does) so they have no clue how the aftermarket systems for V8's perform. I'm researching EFI right now and as you probably know, there are a couple ways to go. I'll probably post a separate thread as well but I saw your project going on right now.
 
#25 ·
I ended up with Holley instead of Fast XFI based on the fact I could tune the system with minimal computer skills and it has the ability to self learn the AFR that you set. It controls my timing. I liked that I had the option to put the ecu under the hood(which I did) and that left me with only a half inch hole through the firewall. You can datalog without a computer. There is a cool touch screen coming out and it has a one wire gauge set up. I figured since this is the newest system out there it probably has the biggest and fastest ecu available for future upgrades.(I am only guessing) So far I am really happy. It is one of my best upgrades. Cruising season is over here so I have to wait till next spring to really shake it down. One thing I have noticed so far is the system has less power then my carb set up. I not to worried as I have only put less then a hour of drive time on it since the conversion. I am confident I will get most of that HP back with a little tuning. It has really tamed the engine to work with my tremec and cold start is amazing.
 
#26 ·
Dan, thanks for the info, I'm glad efi is working out for people, it is less daunting for guys like me who are old school but know efi is the way to go. There is a definite learning curve with the mapping so I'll stay tuned to watch your progress regarding the carb vs. efi power comparison. I have no doubt you'll find the HP. I think this is tuning at it's core because it's all about efficiency rather than just power.
 
#27 ·
Dan, thanks for the info, I'm glad efi is working out for people, it is less daunting for guys like me who are old school but know efi is the way to go.
Ditto m8
 
#28 ·
The holley system is awesome, and I love it! I also have no EFI experience, nor do I care to learn about the intricacies. I loaded one of the base tunes from Holley, tweaked a couple of things (added more cruise timing, leaned out the cruise further to 15:1) and that was it! Been enjoying my car ever since. Runs as good or better than my Holley/Prosystems 950 and 1000 HPs - that's why I'm suprised quite honestly that Dan's isnt "there" yet.

The datalogger is awesome, multiple rev limiters, a/c control, fan control, etc etc.
 
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