1967 PACE CAR - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 99, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
 
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I hate to say this, but ignorance and stupidity prevented me from calling an ad that read 1967 Convertible, 396, basket case needing restoration. The car was sold the week of November 15th. I called the former owner and the new owner. The car was originally Ermine white with a deluxe blue interior. I am choking back a few tears right now, because it was a factory BB (4N code), has a 12 bolt with the traction bar. The motor in it was not the original one. O.K., I hope everybody is sitting down, the car was sold for $1700!!!!!!!.

My first impression is/was that this car is a Pace Car. BUT it does not have tach and gauges and the wood steering wheel. I read that all '67 pacers had this option. Yes, someone could have changed these items, but what other codes or options can I tell the new owner to look for? Hopefully I will get a chance to inspect the car. I heard that exterior color code should read C-1 or 0-1 on the cowl tag.

Also I forgot to mention the car has Power Drum Brakes all around. Wouldn't this type of car have Power front brakes?

I am so angry for not jumping on this car, but the new owner is going to restore it to whatever it was originally and keep it. Not like some people that will cheezily restore it and sell it for a large sum of money, just to make a quick profit.

P.S. The car was sold in Indianapolis- to add insult to injury.
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 99, 03:30 AM Thread Starter
 
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I forgot to mention this car is an SS/RS!
post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 99, 11:21 AM
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You are correct regarding the paint codes on the trim tag, also the build dates need to be march thru april 1967 as well as a few other nuances. Though a few were built in June, but obviously were not at the race. Check out http://holisticpage/camaro/camaros_fs.htm for excellent info on both 67 and 69 pacers. You are incorrect on the gauges. I've seen a REAL 1967 pace car WITHOUT gauges and a 10 bolt rear. That's right a 10-bolt. Non-posi equipped small block 67 pacers had a 10 bolt rear. Guages were an option. RPO U-14. Also, ALL pace cars were RS/SS. One other point, while $1,700 sure sounds tempting. A "basket case" could easily eat up the better part of $40,000 to do it right. One could be "upside down" in the car real quick (been there). Almost ALWAYS better financially to buy the absolute best condition car you can afford versus a deal on a project. Most cars that are restored correctly never sell for even close to the cost of even the restoration let alone the cost of the base car to begin with. Just my $0.02

[This message has been edited by 70 RS/Z-28 (edited 11-23-99).]

[This message has been edited by 70 RS/Z-28 (edited 11-23-99).]
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old Nov 28th, 99, 10:50 AM
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Record the VIN and the complete trim tag, esp the bottom line. Include any dashes.
Post what you find.

Disc brakes and the gauges (U17) were an option, not required.

I disagree on the 10 bolt part. All pacecar replicas were SS's and got 12 bolts. The pacesetter cars made for Canada were 327 cars and had 10 bolts.

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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old Nov 29th, 99, 07:49 AM
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Some non-posi small block cars had 10-bolts. This is fact. Look in the official Chev. Indy pace car book by John Hooper and D. M. Crispino. Also, I have personally seen a documented '67 pacer w/original 10-bolt.
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old Nov 30th, 99, 10:01 AM
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Let me reword my statement. All pacecar replicas that were SS's got 12 bolts, posi or non posi.
There were other replicas that weren't SS's and they would get 10 bolts.

Post your numbers and we'll help.

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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old Nov 30th, 99, 12:00 PM
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From page 41 of the offical Chevrolet Indy Pace Car by John Hooper:

"Rear ends have become a subject of interest to the seasoned Pace Car afficionado and novice. Here's what we have found to be true of the 67 Pacers; those that are equipped with 12-bolt have posi-rear ends while those with the 10-bolts (and there are some) are non-posi. The posi unit was optional. Most Pacers on file are equipped with the posi 12-bolt."

They go on to list 60 or so of the 84 registered pace cars. Also USCC had about 100 cars registered. ALL festival cars/pace replicas cars were RS/SS. The car I have personally seen with non-posi 10-bolt was coded 4P on the cowl tag meaning SS350 and had a 04A build date and "C-1" & "R" codes. It had all the rest of the correct codes.

Of the 11 documented Canadian cars built in June when A.J. Foyt's special air conditioning Pacer was built ALL had a 396/325 big block and ALL were identically equipped none are known to have ever had the door decals. Not sure where your 327 equipped canadian cars comes from or that disc brakes were an option. My info says disc brakes were mandatory.

If you have different info from what I have found by all means please post your references. I'd love to learn something new about these cars. All of my info pertains to the actual Festival cars (at Indy) (O-1 coded)and the replicas (C-1 coded).

Kurt, BTW great website.

[This message has been edited by 70 RS/Z-28 (edited 11-30-99).]
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old Nov 30th, 99, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Here are the numbers from the car that started all this:

06C R
ST67 12667NOR138291
TR-732-Z C-1
WD 2ZGS 3SL
4N 5Y


Gentlemen and ladies, I have already formed my opinion about this car. Let me hear your thoughts.In addition to the Official Pace Car book by Crispino and Hooper, please read Super Chevy, February 1993. They have an interesting article about the Canadian Pace cars and the production numbers, as well as what Chevy dealers did when they could not get a Pacer.
post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old Nov 30th, 99, 02:58 PM
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Could you post the VIN.
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old Dec 3rd, 99, 03:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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I do not have the VIN handy, but I remember the last 6 digits fall between 237512 and 238642.

Could this car have been part of the Pacesetter Promotion that ran through June of 1967? Dealers could order a car and add the 500 decals. I have heard of 67 pace cars with a rear antennae option, have any of you?
post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old Dec 3rd, 99, 04:41 AM
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If it was a SS it had a 12 bolt orig., maybe the car you saw with the 10 bolt had been changed. I have never seen a real SS, 67 that came with a 10 bolt and I've been playing with them for over 20 years
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old Dec 3rd, 99, 05:09 AM Thread Starter
 
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I have to disagree. I have a 1967 SS/RS 350 Convertible that came with a factory 10 Bolt, non posi, and 4 wheel non power drum brakes. It had no traction bar provision. The date code on the rear match the car. I have met other people who also have found 10 bolts in their SS'.



[This message has been edited by [email protected] (edited 12-03-99).]
post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old Dec 3rd, 99, 09:34 AM
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I have to say I agree with Charlie (clill) on this one. *So far*, I have not seen a documented 67-8 SS w/ a 10 bolt. 69, yes.

CRG would love the data on a car that is otherwise. Please post it under a new thread.

On this 67: No - after the 5Y code?
Could you post the actual VIN?
We have several pacers in our database w/ rear antennaes. No 67 had spoilers, so any car could get a rear antennae.

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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old Dec 3rd, 99, 11:50 AM
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If the VIN is N237512 or N238642 it's a documented Canadian Pace Car equipped w/396/325 HP and Turbo 400 shipped between 6-19-67 and 6-23-67 which fits the build date perfectly (06C) I've also read, being a Canadian Car, it's posible to have it fully documented. Apparently GM Canada has copies of info pertaining to all car imported to Canada.

[This message has been edited by 70 RS/Z-28 (edited 12-03-99).]
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old Dec 7th, 99, 03:41 AM
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[Since the original post I corrected some typos and added the words in square brackets[] - Rich]

A few tidbits:

The Pace Car book referenced was written by Donna Crispino. Hooper's name is also on the book, but Donna did most, if not all, of the work, and there is a lawsuit underway over these related issues.

Cars ordered by dealers in the pace car color scheme (but outside of the Replica ordering process and without the special paint or stripe) are not official Pace Car replicas (in my opinion).

[There were 12 Canadian L35/M40 replicas,
not 11. CRG has the GM shipping data on all of these cars - one was not reported on the shippers until August, as even though it was built 16 June it was not shipped until 6 July.]


The latest known non-Canadian replica is 06B, according to ICC. CRG has not confirmed this one [nor one from 06A]. The latest [non-Canadian replica] that CRG has specific data on is 05D. CRG believes the 06C Canadian cars were the last built, and the only ones [replicas] built in 06C. [Therefore if this is a genuine replica at all, it seems it must be one of the Canadian 12 L35/M40s.]

All 22 of the June Canadian cars had special clearcoat paint, which was coded on the trim tag as 0-1, not the C-1 that this car has.
The apparent absence of this code is inconsistent with it being a Canadian replica.

The Canadian cars had a fleet code, this
one doesn't. The apparent absence of this code is inconsistent with this being a [Canadian] pace car replica.

All known replicas have a blue nose stripe, indicated as a non-standard color change by the dash at the end of the option fields. The apparent absence of this code also militates against this being a pace car replica [either Canadian or US].

The Pacesetter cars were all L6 units[, could be coupe or convertible (most were coupes) and of any color. The purpose of the Pacesetter promotion was to sell cars, not replicas.]

The Canadian small-block replicas were 327/210HP non-SS cars that were otherwise optioned like SS models. Naturally, they had 10-bolts.

At the risk of irritating Motorhd, CRG has never seen a 10-bolt 1967-68 SS. CRG has data on thousands of first-gen Camaros. While theoretically possible (we think) under unusual special order circumstances, NONE have been documented, and without documentation, a 10-bolt 67-68 SS remains a theory rather than proven fact. There are also other explanations for 10-bolt cars that appear to be SS-350s. We encourage Motorhd to submit his data for review.

The 10-bolt "SS" cars documented in the Pace Car book are, I believe, the 327/210 non-SS cars. Donna wasn't aware that these were not SS cars until I called her this past weekend.

Regarding the VIN range N237512 to N238642,
these were shipped to Canada on 6/23. The first was built on 6/19, and the second on 6/20. [Note however that there was the 12th car that was shipped 7/6, even though it was built 6/16.]

Best wishes,

Rich Fields,
Coordinator, CRG


[This message has been edited by Rich Fields (edited 12-07-99).]
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