I want to get to drivin'!! - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 08, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 135
Exclamation I want to get to drivin'!!

I am currently hitting a wall right now with my car (figuratively speaking). I've been working on my brakes for several days now and can't quite get it right. I need some help! (I have a 69 camaro with drums all away around)

I replaced all wheel cylinders a few days ago. I went to bleed my brakes, and the fronts bled just fine. However, the backs did not. I couldn't get ANY fluid out. I started by testing the lines that come out of the master cylinder to be sure fluid shot out. It does.

Then i took one line at a time off of the distribution block, that is mounted below the master cylinder, to be sure fluid shot out of each line. It did.

then i followed the lines to the back brakes to see if there was a kink in a line, and there wasn't. I then took the lines off the distribution block and loosned the lines from the back brakes to shoot air through them with a compressor, and air did go through. So, that told me the lines are not blocked.

Last night i purchased a new master cylinder, to help narrow the problem. I bench bled the master, and while having the distribution block off I shot air through it to be sure it wasnt clogged. I put everything back together and the brakes are still very spongy.

Should i be pumping the brakes with one back brake line open to see if fluid will shoot out? Should i keep it closed until the brake pedal is tight? I am kinda stuck. I don't really want to buy a new distribution block (because it is 79.99 at ricks), unless that is the problem. ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT! Sorry for all the writing, but hopefully this will narrow the problem down.

Thanks again for your help.

Oh, one last thing, after pumping the brakes last night about 70 times, the front reservoir looked dirty and the back looked as clean as when i put the new fluid in after mounting the master. I dont know what that meant.

thanks again.
aaron9252 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 08, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 135
Re: I want to get to drivin'!!

Well, i guess having the car sit for 24 hours helped make a difference. I am getting fluid out of the back bleeders now, but there might be another problem. The back brakes are not bleeding much fluid. They squirt, but nothing like the fronts.

Is this normal? Any thoughts? I bled the brakes for about 1 1/2 hours and VERY small bubbles were still showing. Any thoughts on that? Thanks for your help.
aaron9252 is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 08, 07:15 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: California
Posts: 2,353
Re: I want to get to drivin'!!

If you look down into the reservoirs on the master you should be able to see the small hole the fluid flows down through, when the brakes are applied the first thing that happens is that the piston covers this hole. (you can have some one press the pedal and see it happen.

Some times the pushrod on the booster (or from the pedal if you have manual brakes) will hold the piston in that first little bit (and cover the hole in the reservoir) if it is too long or adjusted wrong.
I think this is your problem on the rear brakes.

The fronts could be something different or the same thing. Possibly clogged hoses.

Do not get a new distribution block, if air flows through it well then fluid will to and that is about all it does as far as actually braking is concerned.
400bird is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 08, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 135
Re: I want to get to drivin'!!

Is it easy to adjust the rod?
aaron9252 is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 08, 03:31 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: California
Posts: 2,353
Re: I want to get to drivin'!!

Depends, if you have a manual brakes or a booster with an adjustable pushrod on the master cylinder side, yes, fairly easy.

Basically all you need to do is adjust it so that it does not apply any pressure to the piston when bolted up, but you want to have as little slack as possible.

Look down into the master first to see if the hole is covered.

Also, check to make sure the fluid is getting through the rear flex hose. Take one of the hard lines out and have some one step on the brake. If it seems like you should have more fluid coming out, try unbolting the flex line and see what comes out of the hard line on the car when someone steps on it. If more fluid comes out when the flex line is removed replace it, you might want to check the front flex lines too, if the are old.
400bird is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 08, 04:33 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 135
Re: I want to get to drivin'!!

I went through every line and had to replace the two rear lines. I ended up adjusted the push rod about a 1/2 inch as well.

All seems well right now with fluid distribution, but there is a new problem. This weekend I had my wife pumping the brake for about 2 hours while I bled the brakes. I thought she was going to kill me.

We went through 2 of the tall cans of brake fluid. I AM STILL GETTING BUBBLES! I checked all the lines to make sure there were no pin-hole leaks and also checked everything to make sure all the bolts were tight. I just dont understand.

I put the wheels on last night and drove the car on my road to see how the brakes felt. To stop, I had to pump the brake several times, otherwise they would go straight to the floor.

Any suggestions!?? This is driving me crazy, because this is the last thing before I get it on the road (and of course I need to get it right). Would it be worth taking it somewhere? Does a mechanic have something that would bleed the brakes more efficiently? Or do i need to pull my wife back into the garage?

thanks for your help.
aaron9252 is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 08, 06:56 AM
Senior Tech
Daral
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wooster, Ohio
Posts: 1,129
Re: I want to get to drivin'!!

If your peddle is going to the floor, then it sounds like you have a leak in the system. Check to make sure no brake fluid is leaking at any of the junctions. That means pulling the drums and checking those new wheel cylinders. If you don't have any leaks, then my guess is your new MC is not working properly. You could try bench bleeding it again. If it is working properly it should not take long to bleed the system. I bled my whole system last month using the old fashon pump the peddle method. It only took about 45 min. to do all four wheels on a system that was completely rebuilt from MC to wheel cylinders.

Daral (67 RS/SS 350)
Daral is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 08, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 135
Re: I want to get to drivin'!!

Thanks Daral. When I get off of work, I will check everything over again. And possibly bench bleed the mc again.

This afternoon I was speaking to my work's mechanic and he told me to start with the front left, then front right, back left, then back right. I felt like an idiot.

I could have sworn that one was supposed to bleed starting with the brake furthest away from the mc. Which is correct!!??
aaron9252 is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 08, 10:12 AM
Senior Tech
Daral
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wooster, Ohio
Posts: 1,129
Re: I want to get to drivin'!!

Aaron:

You are correct. Start at the brake furthest away from the MC. As you are sitting in the driver's seat, it would be back right, back left, front right and finally front left. It took about 20 pumps of the peddle to get fluid from the MC to my back right. Once I got fluid to that wheel, the rest were easy. Really watch the MC to make sure you keep plenty of fluid in it. I also found that if you push the peddle slowly especially when going down, it seems to move the fluid in a more controlled manner but that could just be me being too particular.

Daral (67 RS/SS 350)
Daral is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 08, 12:11 PM
Senior Tech
Jamie
 
crustyz11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: WI
Posts: 636
Re: I want to get to drivin'!!

I'm a uge fan of using "speed bleeders". They have a built-in check valve so you don't need to keep opening and closing the bleeder for each pedal pump. You just crack the bleeder open a half turn and slowly pump the pedal to bleed that particular wheel cyl. When you're done with that corner, simply snug up the bleeder ad move on to the next brake.
I've found them sold in pairs at Carquest for $20.00. I'm sure your wife wouldn't mind spending the $40.00!
I love things that make life easier.

Hopeful graduate from the school of hard knocks !!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1969 Z11 "barn car"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1969 X11 Suffered tragic death.
1981 Z28 (wifes car) sold to afford child.
crustyz11 is offline  
post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 08, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 135
Re: I want to get to drivin'!!

I stumbled upon the problem! As I was jacking up the car again today to remove the wheels and noticed a small puddle of brake fluid behind the back right tire.

Now from the beginning...I replaced the two back lines with new lines a few days ago. The two bolts that they come with are two different sizes. A short one and a longer one. On the back left, i had the short in the w.c. and the long in the distribution block. On the back RIGHT, i had it assembled the other way around. SO, the lip on the long end wasn't being fully compressed against the wheel cylinder which caused a small leak, due to the long bolt not being able to screw all the way into the w.c. This obviously allowed air in the lines.

After removing and turning around the back right line, I bled each brake about 8 times and presto! I had brakes.

Thanks for all of your help. But I will probably still invest in the speed bleeders for future brake jobs. Just walking near the garage door, my wife will yell, "Don't ask!!".
aaron9252 is offline  
post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 08, 08:00 AM
Senior Tech
Daral
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wooster, Ohio
Posts: 1,129
Re: I want to get to drivin'!!

Glad you got it worked out.

Daral (67 RS/SS 350)
Daral is offline  
post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 08, 07:57 PM
Senior Tech
 
DHONDAGOD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: central Calif
Posts: 281
Re: I want to get to drivin'!!

You need to take your wife to dinner and tell her how much you appreciate her....


(Congrats on the brakes)


Chris

Pics of my 69 project found here. Not dialup freindly
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DHONDAGOD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome