Manual brake question - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old Jul 1st, 08, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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John
 
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Manual brake question

I started a new topic since things have changed with my brakes. I have a C5/C4 manual set up. Ive been having alot of trouble getting any pressure in the brake pedal.

Today I discovered that when I pump the brakes the pedal has a little pressure then stops, but when the bleeder is loosened the pedal drops about an inch or so more. Ive never had a car with manual brakes before, is this inch of travel where all my pressure comes in at? I thought I should have a steady increase in pressure on the pedal till it stops, not a all of a sudden thing?

John
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 08, 05:37 AM
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Re: Manual brake question

I'm working on my brakes right now too, disc/disc setup. I also have an issue where I don't seem to have a lot of pressure build up for the first inch or so of travel, and gets a little better the further down I go.

I have the wrong proportioning valve (disc/drum). Have ordered it and hope to get it replaced next week.

I think my problem is that I still have some air trapped in the system. This would explain some of the soft pedal issues (and would help explain why we can pump them up to gain some pressure).

Your pressure should build up. It will be low at first, and build up. Your situation sounds a bit more sever though. It should be a slow ramp up in pressure to full pressure, not an 'all of a sudden' full pressure.

Possible issues: air in line, possible need for a 2lb residual valve setup? (1 valve for front, 1 valve for rear)

Do all the bleed screws sit in their proper locations?
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 08, 07:06 AM
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Re: Manual brake question

I installed manual C5/C4, the master is plumbed directly to an adjustable prop valve and straight to the rear and for the front to a brass T then to each wheel from there. No residual valve no factory style distribution block with any other valving. Being manual brakes the pedal feels hard and takes some leg mussle. The harder you push the more stopping power there is. There is just a little free play in the pedal before the brakes start working but it isn't all or nothing. I can't say the pedal only moves an inch under my foot, it's not as much as it moved with a power booster but the more I push the more breaking power is applied.

John - not sure what you are saying about opening the bleeder, by opening one of them it gives the fluid some place to go other than moving the piston in the calipers. What master are you using, mine is a 1" and alot use a 15/16" which is said to provide more pedal or not as hard of a pedal.

Muadi - get the right parts for disc/cisc and be sure your lines are blead properly before you spend more time on it.

The only valving needed is either an adjustable prop valve or one of the ccp ( I think others use the same) disc/disc distribution blocks that proportions the rear slightly.

...Dennis

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 08, 08:16 AM
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Re: Manual brake question

Thanks Dennis.

The reason I purchased the disc/disc prop. valve was to continue using the Brake Light switch option. I know its not necessary, but I like to have it functional.

John, I only mentioned the prop. valve because you did not mention your setup. Dennis's solution works fine, as yours will I'm sure. But, if you are still using the prop. valve, make sure it is for a disc/disc application. My current prop. valve is wrong for me, which is why I most likely am seeing issues.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 08, 11:46 AM
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Re: Manual brake question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muadi View Post
Thanks Dennis.

The reason I purchased the disc/disc prop. valve was to continue using the Brake Light switch option. I know its not necessary, but I like to have it functional.
I have friends using them and they are happy with their brakes. I have one but haven't installed it since I was happy with the adjustable and brass T.

...Dennis

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 08, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Manual brake question

Thanks for the input Denis and Muadi


Muadi, Im using a disc/disc combination valve I got from "The Right Stuff". Im using it for the same reason, to have the brake light work. And my MC is a 1'' disc/disc, I think its from an old corvette. Ive bleed the brakes many times, first with a vacumn bleeder, then a Motive pressure bleeder, and finaly old fashioned budy method, I dont know what else I can do to these things.

Denise what I was refering to with the bleeder screw was, when i push the pedal down it would go about 3 or 4 inches with very little pressure then stop dead , kinda felt like i was bottoming out the MC. But when I had a friend get under it to help bleed it, I found that the pedal would drop another inch when he opened the bleeder screw. Im thinking I must be getting pressure or else I would have been able to push the pedal down the full amount to begin with.

Im thinking I need to just get the car road worthy and test everything out, but rite now it just doesnt feel rite to me. Ive never had manual brakes before so I have nuthing to refrence the feel to. This has been very frustrating, I wish I woulda just bought a full kit instead of piecing it together.

Im tempted to call up touring classics and have them send me a new MC, pushrod and adjustable PV and see what that does.

John
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 08, 02:15 PM
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Re: Manual brake question

Hey John - you shouldn't have more than a couple inches of travel at most, I can feel my system pressurize just about the time the brake light switch is operating and have an inch or so from there where the pedal gets firmer and firmer. Did you shorten your clevis pin when you installed it? Did you install it in the right hole for manual brakes? How about the master, was it bench blead before being installed?

...Dennis

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 08, 03:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Manual brake question

Dennis, First let me apologize for spelling your name all wrong. I have no excuse for it since I’ve searched just about every post you’ve made looking for pictures of your car. My cars gonna be a clone of yours minus the RS stuff and deluxe interior, I even plan on getting 4th gen seats done in standard similar to your new ones. I figure you wouldn’t mind so much since im way out here in Michigan.

Anyway, I fabricated my clevis out of the old booster rod, and mounted it in the upper hole. I did bench bleed the master to. You said your system pressurize just about the time the brake light switch is operating and have an inch or so from there where the pedal gets firmer and firmer. Mine is similar to this, but as I push the pedal down I feel very little pressure and when the pedal is completely off the brake light switch is when I get that 1-inch of hard pedal. Could my clevis be to short? And do you think I still have air in the lines?


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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 08, 05:35 PM
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Re: Manual brake question

Hey John - no problem on the spelling, I've been called worse Air would cause a spongy feeling which could be why you have so much pedal. If your clevis pin were too short it could be bottoming out and your inch of hard pedal could be the pedal assembly flexing under the pressure of your foot. How do the brakes work when the car is moving? If you don't get more stopping power as you push harder on the pedal you might need a longer pin.

...Dennis

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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 08, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Manual brake question

Dennis, Unfortunetly its not in driving condition, so i cant test it out. Im hoping to have it assembled enough in a week or two to test drive it. I'll try bleeding them again and wrap on the MC and calipers again and see if I can get any more air out of them.


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