Perfomance Suspension "G" Machine Kits - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
Dan
 
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Perfomance Suspension "G" Machine Kits

Does anyone have any experience with one of these kits?
http://www.performancesuspension.com...oducts_id=5967

I am looking to rebuild the front suspension on my 67 small block coupe. I also want to put coil overs up front as well.

If this kit is not a good choice, does anyone have any suggestions on a complete suspension kit?

Right now, the car is stock and I would like to put either 17 or 18 inch wheels on it while lowering it 2 inches.

Thanks in advance,
D
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 12:32 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: Perfomance Suspension "G" Machine Kits

I'm not familiar with that kit, but I'm not a fan of polyurethane bushings for the front suspension and I see no geometry correction in that setup at all. In addition, if you're going to go with coilovers, you're buying springs and shocks you don't need. There's a lot of Camaro-suspension-for-handling discussions on Pro-touring.com and Lateral-G.net, you might look over there.

If you're looking at ths kit, I'm guessing you're on a bit of a budget. If that's the case, I'd consider (for about the same money) one of the SC&C suspension kits for the front (UCA/LCA and tall balljoints), AFCO spring adjusters and the coils of whatever rate you want (likely 550 lbs./in. or above) with Bilstein shocks and a Hotchkis front swaybar, and the Global West, Hotchkiss or DSE lowering rear springs of your choice, again with Bilstein shocks. Steering rebuild components can be obtained from a lot of sources.

I'd also consider a 3rd gen IROC steering box, and upgrading your brakes.

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 12:55 PM
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Re: Perfomance Suspension "G" Machine Kits

KYBs....I like my teeth, I'd pass.

Scott from NJ. Stay thirsty, my friends


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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
Dan
 
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Re: Perfomance Suspension "G" Machine Kits

Thanks for all the input guys....I am going to look around to see what will work best for me considering my budget of about $2500-3k.

Mkelcy....I actually have done the front disk conversion and I plan on converting the rear to disk as well.

Cheers,
D
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 08:45 PM
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Frank
 
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Re: Perfomance Suspension "G" Machine Kits

With our current specials, For $2800 you can do:

Hotchkis TVS Kit
Hotchkit Bilstien shocks
Hotchkis Premium Steering kit
Speedtech upper and lower arms with Del Alum Bushings.

WAY better stuff.

Check out Hotchkis here

http://www.hotchkis.net/search.html?...mitForm=Search

Check out Speedtech here:

http://www.speedtech-performance.com...prod/prd44.htm
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old Feb 4th, 09, 06:33 PM
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Re: Perfomance Suspension "G" Machine Kits

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProdigyCustoms View Post
With our current specials, For $2800 you can do:

Hotchkis TVS Kit
Hotchkit Bilstien shocks
Hotchkis Premium Steering kit
Speedtech upper and lower arms with Del Alum Bushings.

WAY better stuff.

Check out Hotchkis here

http://www.hotchkis.net/search.html?...mitForm=Search

Check out Speedtech here:

http://www.speedtech-performance.com...prod/prd44.htm
FRANK!!!

Stop!! You and I both know that doesn't fix anything about the geometry on the car. Just because you have a deal on something does not make it the ideal upgrade for handling.

I'm tired of posting the same thing over and over, so I'll quote myself:

This original thread was discussing the Hotchkis TVS kit and the mounting of a rear sway bar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TONY C
So my question would be, why would a reputable company like Hotchkis use a rear sway bar in their vehicle and also promote it in their TVS kit? I know that there are various discussions on this subject and it confuses me. I planned on using a 3/4" rear bar in my 72 Nova with a 1 1/8" front sway bar. Guess I'll just have to drive around with it and without it to find out what my car does better with.

Tony C.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Beauregard
Because most people eat that sh*t up. The TVS kit does not address any of the main issues with the poor geometry of these cars. You get new springs/leafs, a super stiff bar for the front AND the rear, some leaf spring pads, and tie rod sleeves. You put it on a 42 year old car with worn out rubber bushings, sagging low rate springs, a tiny anti-roll bar and monoleafs and all of a sudden you have a Ferrari.

You don't have a Ferrari now, but because they've been around so long, and 90% of the guys at Camaros.net swear by it, it must be true right?

Wrong. You didn't add any positive caster, you didn't fix the bumpsteer, you didn't fix the lack of negative camber gain, and the car is far from seeing it's true effectiveness on the street. Is it better than it was? Sure. But it could be SOOOO much better. Worlds better. Ferrari better.

I can hear some of you saying:
"I don't intend to race my car. I don't really need anything better than this."

You would be missing the point. The point is to upgrade our cars to be more dependable, handle better, stop quicker, and be more like the BMW and Mercedes some are driving to work every day. Wouldn't you like your 42 year old muscle car to feel like your buddy's BMW M5? Or maybe you prefer your Boss's new C6 Corvette?
Point is that there are bolt on parts out there that will actually give you this level of performance; More importantly they will give your car the feel and confidence of a well refined modern day sports car.

If you want to refine your muscle car you should address these key areas in the suspension:

1. Fix the geometry- Tall spindles, the Guldstrand Mod, tall ball joints, etc. All of these help to give some much needed negative camber gain. Continue this trend with tubular upper control arms that ADD the amount of positive caster. If you added tubular control arms without adding a tall spindle, tall ball joint, or relocated the upper control arm, you essentially only added caster and didn't fix anything; you just vastly improved your alignment specs to more modern standards.
2. Steering. Most of us have factory frames with steering boxes still on them. If you do, get a new steering gear that uses the modern day R&P valving. The feedback of these boxes is more like the late model Aston Martin that you took for a test drive last summer. Replace all your worn steering items with new units. Get a modern day alignment with modern day specs. Throw the factory settings in the trash. The feel of the car is reflected back to you through the steering wheel, so you should have a steering system that gives you the feel and feedback performance you expect by driving any modern day vehicle.
3. Springs and shocks. This is one of the keys to a good handling, and great driving muscle car. Don't skimp here and you will be rewarded with precision, balance and comfort. Go the low road and you will feel all the harshness of the pebbles that litter the blacktop, and curse the 3 hour ride to Uncle Stewart's cabin late this fall.
4. Tires. Good tires are the last piece in this formula. Get a good sticky tire and enjoy the experience it gives when cutting through your favorite back road, or exiting the freeway off ramp a few MPH higher than the little yellow sign suggests.

Regarding the rear bar issue- I took a client-now-friend's newly acquired 67 Camaro out for a spin one day. I only drove it for about 3 minutes, and never looked under the hood or under the car before doing so. During our quick jaunt through our back industrial roads, I was fighting for control of the *** end the entire time and figured it was because it might have a rear bar on it. We get it back to the shop, throw it on the lift and there it was- Hotchkis rear sway bar. Curtis, the owner of said 67 Camaro, was advised to remove it when he wanted his car to behave better on the street. He ended up taking it off later that week and the car became much easier to drive at its limit, or in emergency maneuvers.

Bottom line is do your homework for your chassis. You will soon be able to weed out the real stuff from the real fluff. Companies push what sells and what makes money; if all of you keep buying it without doing your due diligence, they will keep pushing it on the masses. I like when a company educates you on why you should buy a part instead of telling you that it's 25% off and in stock. The more questions you ask these companies, the more they are going to need to have answers, and not just marketing knowledge.

Tyler


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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old Feb 4th, 09, 11:14 PM
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Frank
 
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Re: Perfomance Suspension "G" Machine Kits

Tyler, I was giving him apples to apples products to the other kit he was looking at. Yes there is more that can be done. And yes he can Gulstrand with this kit or add spindles, but spindles were not included in the other kit, so I kept it apples to apples.

Besides, are the worlds greatest spindles even available?
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old Feb 6th, 09, 06:25 PM
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Question Re: Perfomance Suspension "G" Machine Kits

Teetoe,

What about the upper A-arms JimM installed?

The greaseable one's w/ metal bushings and also two turn-buckles.............

pdq67



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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old Feb 6th, 09, 06:35 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: Perfomance Suspension "G" Machine Kits

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdq67 View Post
Teetoe,

What about the upper A-arms JimM installed?

The greaseable one's w/ metal bushings and also two turn-buckles.............

pdq67

Nice arms, they give you more caster, but they don't correct the camber issue - for that you either use a tall spindle/tall ball joints or do the Guldstrand mod.

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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