Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles... - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Ryan
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 328
Send a message via AIM to rp0029
Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

I am in the process of installing front LS1 brakes.
Is there a way I can grind the upper mounting boss off without removing my drum spindles?
If I want to have a machine shop do it, do I have to remove the upper and lower ball joints to remove the spindles? Will this require a spring compressor?

Black 1968 Coupe.
Build thread
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Modern, fuel injected LS engine DAILY DRIVER!
rp0029 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 06:55 PM
Senior Tech
Mark
 
NHBandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 2,311
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

Have it done by a machine shop. If you leave the shocks in place you won't need a spring compressor. The shock will hold the spring in place. You need to seperate the balljoints from the spindle with a "pickle fork" tool.
NHBandit is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 07:01 PM
Senior Tech
Mike
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 1,860
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rp0029 View Post
I am in the process of installing front LS1 brakes.
Is there a way I can grind the upper mounting boss off without removing my drum spindles?
If I want to have a machine shop do it, do I have to remove the upper and lower ball joints to remove the spindles? Will this require a spring compressor?
Pretty tough to grind them off in position and keep them flat and straight. Better off to have a machine shop mill them off. You can take the spindles off without removing the springs, you have to support the lower control arm with a axle stand on each side close to the lower ball joint, this will keep pressure on the springs, dont rely on the shock, as it will put excessive extension on it, plus I have seen the lower end pull rite off before. Then seperate the ball joints from the spindle. A big hammer and a big drift on the side off the spindle where the ball joint stud goes thru will usually seperate the ball joint studs. You could use a pickle fork but it will probably rip the ball joint boots.
Dont jack up the car of course until the spindles are reinstalled.

2002 Jerry Bickle Cavalier, 446" Small Block, Brodix Canted Valve, lenco 5 speed, 7.54 @ 180. mph,1.06 60', 2235 lbs for 2014. GM Canada Docs, Highly Optioned 69 RSZ28 , Hugger Orange, White Stripes, 42,000 mile survivor, owned since 1973.
rszmjt is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Ryan
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 328
Send a message via AIM to rp0029
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

I didn't want to take the ball joints out until I was doing the suspension. I wanted to install taller ball joints, as in the SC&C stage 1 kit. I wanted to get new shocks and springs as well. So I guess I'll just have to get those parts too.
For all I put into it, I don't think I do anything funner than working on my car.

Black 1968 Coupe.
Build thread
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Modern, fuel injected LS engine DAILY DRIVER!
rp0029 is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Ryan
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 328
Send a message via AIM to rp0029
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

And don't I need to have a machine shop press in the ball joints? Wouldn't this require the removal of the a-arms?

Black 1968 Coupe.
Build thread
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Modern, fuel injected LS engine DAILY DRIVER!
rp0029 is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 07:56 PM
Senior Tech
Al
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Vancouver, USA
Posts: 10,511
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rp0029 View Post
And don't I need to have a machine shop press in the ball joints? Wouldn't this require the removal of the a-arms?
The new upper ball joint will use bolts. The factory ball joint is riveted to the the upper a-arm - you can grind or chisel the rivet heads with the a-arm in place. But if you get that far, it's only a couple of bolts to the get the upper a-arm off, and makes things more accessible. The lower ball joint should be pressed in. Check with Marcus at SC&C about using a tall upper BJ with stock a-arms - seems I've heard it's not the greatest idea, but not positive on that.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
BPOS is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 08:12 PM
Senior Tech
Royce
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Vacaville, CA
Posts: 10,474
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

You do not have to remove the ball joints from the A-arms to remove the spindle. You just have to pop the tapered end of the ball joint out of the spindle (upper and lower). It really isn't a big deal. You can re-use your current ball joints until you decide to do the suspension.

I would not advise using a pickle fork unless you plan to replace your ball joints and/or boots. As rszmjt suggested use a hammer and hit the side of the spindle where the ball joint goes through. Leave the nut for the ball joint on just loosen it up and take it off about half way.

Royce (NO XQSSS) Bradley

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(brief sound/video clip, 3 1/2" exhaust through Borla Sportsman mufflers)
camaroman7d is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Ryan
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 328
Send a message via AIM to rp0029
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

OK, so the plan will be to compress the springs by placing jackstands under the springs/lower a-arms and then loosening the nuts on the ball joints. Then I'll whack each side of the spindle until the spindle pops out?

Black 1968 Coupe.
Build thread
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Modern, fuel injected LS engine DAILY DRIVER!
rp0029 is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 09, 09:06 PM
Senior Tech
Royce
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Vacaville, CA
Posts: 10,474
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rp0029 View Post
OK, so the plan will be to compress the springs by placing jackstands under the springs/lower a-arms and then loosening the nuts on the ball joints. Then I'll whack each side of the spindle until the spindle pops out?
That's pretty much all there is to it. By leaving the nuts on you don't have to worry about the spring flying out and you can be sure you have all the stored energy from the spring under control before you remove the nuts.

Royce (NO XQSSS) Bradley

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(brief sound/video clip, 3 1/2" exhaust through Borla Sportsman mufflers)
camaroman7d is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 09, 07:13 PM
Senior Tech
Royce
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Vacaville, CA
Posts: 10,474
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

One other thing I like to do is, put the car on jack stands and use the floor jack under the lower A-arm. After you pop the ball joints loose (with the nuts still on but, loose jack up the lower A-arm to compress the spring, remove the nuts all the way, then lower the jack slowly. If you want to be extra safe you can loop some chain through the spring and around the frame or A-arm. I prefer to use a piece of pipe and just stick it up through the shock hole.

Royce (NO XQSSS) Bradley

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(brief sound/video clip, 3 1/2" exhaust through Borla Sportsman mufflers)
camaroman7d is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 09, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Ryan
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 328
Send a message via AIM to rp0029
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

My god. Removal of the spindles was a MOTHER EFFER. I was completely unaware of how difficult it would be.
As it turns out, the ball joints have tapered ends, and probably were pressed into the spindle at one point (or else torqued very hard onto them). I jacked up the car by the frame and lowered the lower a-arm onto the jackstand, compressing the spring.
Getting the cotter pins out took a half hour in itself. The brake components came out without too much difficulty, but the bolt that goes into the upper mounting boss would not budge. The two lower bolts on the backing plate came out fine.
I then removed the steering linkage. However, the top bolt had metal tabs protruding that had been folded over the hex parts of the bolts, and the tabs would not budge.
So I decided to take out the spindle with the backing plate still on it.
Unbolted the nuts on the upper and lower balls about half way, and banged the heck out of it with a rubber mallet, trying to get the ball joints to move. I pounded away like a cave man for a half hour and nothing.
Out of sheer frustration I took my metal hammer and gave the lower part of the spindle about five good HARD whacks, right on the spindle between the lower ball joint and the ball joint's nut. To my delight it came loose! I removed the lower ball joint nut and sure enough, it came off.
The upper a-arm was then free and moving up and down, spindle and backing plate still attached.
I shook the sucker for about 5-10 minutes, gave it a few HARD whacks with the metal hammer in the same place, and nothing.
So I turned the spindle straight on, positioned it so that the bottom of the spindle didn't hit the boot of the lower ball joint, and put my adjustable crescent wrench in between the upper a arm and the disc backing plate like a lever and hit down on the crescent wrench with the rubber mallet. After about five hits the thing finally popped off.
Thanks for all of your help.

Black 1968 Coupe.
Build thread
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Modern, fuel injected LS engine DAILY DRIVER!
rp0029 is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 09, 05:58 PM
Moderator
David Pozzi
 
davidpozzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Central California, USA
Posts: 10,065
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

There is a forked tool called a "pickle fork" that most auto stores sell to separate the ball joints, also there is a smaller version to separate tie rod ends. They ruin the dust boots, but they work. Even those, you have to hit with a sledge hammer, a rubber mallet isn't enough at all.

Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

67 RS 327 original owner. 1965 Lola T-70
davidpozzi is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 09, 06:03 PM
Senior Tech
Mark
 
NHBandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 2,311
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

Just to clarify my suggestion of using a pickle fork on the balljoints... I've been a mechanic for 30 years and while smacking the side of the spindle is a great way to get the balljoint to pop loose without tearing the boot I wouldn't do it on a vintage car I care about. I do it all the time on regular everyday drivers & trucks and it's quick & easy but I just can't bring myself to beating the hell out of a perfectly good spindle (especially if the balljoints are going to be replaced anyway). As Ryan said, he had to hit it really hard repeatedly before he got it to come apart. So go ahead and put dents in your vintage spindles. At least you won't hurt the $2 rubber boot....
NHBandit is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 09, 06:24 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ashby,MN, USA
Posts: 8,305
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rp0029 View Post
My god. Removal of the spindles was a MOTHER EFFER. I was completely unaware of how difficult it would be.
As it turns out, the ball joints have tapered ends, and probably were pressed into the spindle at one point (or else torqued very hard onto them). I jacked up the car by the frame and lowered the lower a-arm onto the jackstand, compressing the spring.
Getting the cotter pins out took a half hour in itself. The brake components came out without too much difficulty, but the bolt that goes into the upper mounting boss would not budge. The two lower bolts on the backing plate came out fine.
I then removed the steering linkage. However, the top bolt had metal tabs protruding that had been folded over the hex parts of the bolts, and the tabs would not budge.
So I decided to take out the spindle with the backing plate still on it.
Unbolted the nuts on the upper and lower balls about half way, and banged the heck out of it with a rubber mallet, trying to get the ball joints to move. I pounded away like a cave man for a half hour and nothing.
Out of sheer frustration I took my metal hammer and gave the lower part of the spindle about five good HARD whacks, right on the spindle between the lower ball joint and the ball joint's nut. To my delight it came loose! I removed the lower ball joint nut and sure enough, it came off.
The upper a-arm was then free and moving up and down, spindle and backing plate still attached.
I shook the sucker for about 5-10 minutes, gave it a few HARD whacks with the metal hammer in the same place, and nothing.
So I turned the spindle straight on, positioned it so that the bottom of the spindle didn't hit the boot of the lower ball joint, and put my adjustable crescent wrench in between the upper a arm and the disc backing plate like a lever and hit down on the crescent wrench with the rubber mallet. After about five hits the thing finally popped off.
Thanks for all of your help.
if i read that right, you had the jack under the arm holding the weight of the car when you were trying to pop the balljoint loose- and you were using a rubber mallet..
it would have taken 5 minutes- including jacking up the car, putting jackstands under the frame, and removing the tires- if you just let the suspension hang freely, loosen the upper and lower balljoint nuts a few turns but leave the nut there, and whacked the spindle next to where the balljoint stud goes into it with a decent heavy steel hammer. then, you just jack up the lower control arm under the balljoint to take the pressure off the spindle, remove the nuts, and pull the spindle out.
then you can slowly let the lower arm down and the shock will hold the spring in..
installation is the reversal of removal.
i think i recall that David Pozzi engineered up a tool that pops the balljoints loose by pushing them apart.

you don't plan sincerity.
you have to make it up on the spot.

wanna hear about 20 years ago when i was too smart to know any better?
novaderrik is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 09, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Ryan
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 328
Send a message via AIM to rp0029
Re: Grinding upper mounting boss on drum spindles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by novaderrik View Post
if i read that right, you had the jack under the arm holding the weight of the car when you were trying to pop the balljoint loose- and you were using a rubber mallet..
it would have taken 5 minutes- including jacking up the car, putting jackstands under the frame, and removing the tires- if you just let the suspension hang freely, loosen the upper and lower balljoint nuts a few turns but leave the nut there, and whacked the spindle next to where the balljoint stud goes into it with a decent heavy steel hammer. then, you just jack up the lower control arm under the balljoint to take the pressure off the spindle, remove the nuts, and pull the spindle out.
then you can slowly let the lower arm down and the shock will hold the spring in..
installation is the reversal of removal.
i think i recall that David Pozzi engineered up a tool that pops the balljoints loose by pushing them apart.
I was just scared - I didn't have a safety chain and didn't want to lose any teeth! I didn't want to leave the spring unsupported.

So when I re-install these things, I take it I am to use the pressure of the jack to drive the spindle into the ball joints, rather than torque them down with the ball joint nuts?

Black 1968 Coupe.
Build thread
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Modern, fuel injected LS engine DAILY DRIVER!

Last edited by rp0029; Feb 8th, 09 at 07:24 PM.
rp0029 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome