master cylinder trouble - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 09, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
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sako
 
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master cylinder trouble

I just got the new wilwood m/c. I got it installed, but i want to know how i need to adjust the push rod coming out of the m/c. How far should it be screewed in into the bracket which links to the brake pedal? Do I have to adjust it as long as i can so the rod goes in all the way into the m/c?
Also the m/c did not come with a bench bleed kit. How can i bench bleed the m/c without the proper size bleed kit?

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 09, 05:07 PM
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Re: master cylinder trouble

Question what size bore did you get does it have the rod in it perminatly is it power.

I have non power and the rod was perminatly in the wilwood 7/8 bore and the rod was to long.I took the U bracket off welded the hole redrilled it and shortened it to get some play.

You can get a bench bleeder a any auto parts store.

Wilwood recomends not using dot-5 and this was after I used it.

PRO.ST69orange

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 09, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: master cylinder trouble

its the 7/8 bore.
what do you mean when you say "some play"

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 09, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: master cylinder trouble

its the 7/8 bore.
i checked every local auto part store and no one sells the kit. most of the m/c sold in the stores, the bench bleed kit is included in it.
Wilwood sell a $250 m/c and cant even put two plastic and two piece of hose in it. That is lame. Shame on wilwood. Pissed me of cuz i got to run around and look for that shizzz.
what do you mean when you say "some play"

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 09, 08:44 AM
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Re: master cylinder trouble

The bench bleeder kits are usually in the Help section. Sometimes they are not out on the shelf, may need to ask the counter guy. I would call an independent parts store if none of the retail stores have them. For some reason these are hard to find in some cities but not sure why.

Jeff
Current Vehicles: 1969 Camaro Z28 Clone

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 09, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: master cylinder trouble

Ya, very hard to find.
Last night i went to autozone and bought a $15 m/c for a 69 camaro....haha $15. It included the Kit that costs about 5-10 cent to make. I will return it later tonight.
I bought a wilwood m/c for $250 and called them and they said they are looking into it. What a bunch of fu&* heads.
Sorry guys, just pissed off. My car has to sit in the garage for couple of days because of these ......ok ill stop. deeeeep breath.

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 09, 01:03 PM
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Re: master cylinder trouble

You need .010" clearance from pushrod to master cyl to allow full piston return. If not you may have dragging brakes to deal with. This is a pretty standard spec with any brake system. I've bought a lot of master cylinders and none came with bleed kits, but I don't buy them at Autozone.

If you have some short pieces of bundyflex tubing, you can make your own bleed kit.
David

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 09, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: master cylinder trouble

when i installed the m/c, i screwed the pushrod about half way to the u bolt which connects to the brake pedal. Now is that good enough or should the rod connect to the u bold just at the edge which would alow the rod to go in further?
Also I have manual brakes, when i disconnected the old m/c there is a spring that was connected to the pedal. I think only manual brakes have this spring.
There is no room for me to get in there and reconnect this pain in the a$$ spring. Is it neccesary to have this spring on there, because the pedal comes back all the way after release.

The hose is not the problem, i can get it anywhere. its the nipple that screws into the m/c to hook up the bench bleed. I tried to make my own, but it was pulling air in because it was not air tight.
The only reason i bought the m/c from autozone was to use the bleeder and return it.haha
The only thing i would buy from autozone is tireshine.....lol

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 09, 04:02 PM
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Re: master cylinder trouble

I'm not sure I understand what you are doing.
Are you converting manual brakes to power brakes?
Do you have discs?

With power brakes the booster pushrod has a clevis on it's end, the clevis connects to the lower hole on the pedal. No return spring is used, and the pedal height from floor is much lower than on a manual brake system.
The booster rod controls pedal height but there is some adjustability on the pedal clevis connection. Go here and scroll down to the next item which is pushrod length and pedal height.
http://www.pozziracing.com/brakes.htm#Booster

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 09, 04:50 PM
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Re: master cylinder trouble

David,
Can you please explain how to measure the clearance for the rod and mc?
I had to shorten my rod to allow the piston to recover.
Ken
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 5th, 09, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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Re: master cylinder trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpozzi View Post
I'm not sure I understand what you are doing.
Are you converting manual brakes to power brakes?
Do you have discs?

With power brakes the booster pushrod has a clevis on it's end, the clevis connects to the lower hole on the pedal. No return spring is used, and the pedal height from floor is much lower than on a manual brake system.
The booster rod controls pedal height but there is some adjustability on the pedal clevis connection. Go here and scroll down to the next item which is pushrod length and pedal height.
http://www.pozziracing.com/brakes.htm#Booster
David,
I have manual brakes, disk on front and drum on back.NO BOOSTER.
The pdeal was very stiff and hard to brake.
I changed the m/c to a wilwood m/c 7/8 bore,and i kept the same proportioning valve with no booster. The thing is that i installed it without bench bleeding.I benched it after, than i bleed all the lines at the wheels.
Now, the pedal is spongy and there is no pressure at all. No stoping power at all. Should i uninstall it and bench bleed it first?
The other question is, the push rod from the m/c bolts onto the clevis which hooks up to the pedal. What i want to know is how do i adjust the bush rod. how far should it be screwed in to the clevis,Half way, all the way or just enough where its just screwed enough to hold it. That would adjust how far the rod slides in the m/c.

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 5th, 09, 05:42 PM
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Re: master cylinder trouble

You need the brake pedal return spring installed, I believe it attaches to a tab where the brake pushrod clevis attaches. The pedal should be pulled up against the rubber bumper a square block near the brake light switch. Once the pedal is up in the correct position, adjust the pushrod length until a slight amount of clearance is felt between pushrod and master cyl. .010" is the spec, do it by feel, it doesn't have to be exact, but you do need to insure the MC piston returns fully.

Once the pushrod is set, pump the brakes slowly for 5 or 10 minutes, this may clear any air in the master cyl bore and get rid of the spongy feeling. If not, then try bleeding the brakes again. If any lines were removed, check the connections. Excess rear play may easily cause a low pedal, did you make any changes to your front or rear brakes?

A 7/8" bore is very small for a stock 69 disc system. 1" is used stock.
David

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 09, 10:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: master cylinder trouble

i took out the m/c again and bleed it.i reinstalled it and attached the rod.
i did not attach the spring yet because i got frustrated. That shiz is hard to put on because lack of space. im a big guy so its not so easy putting my hands between the the brake, clutch and gas pedal. haha
after that i bleed the whole system and the brake pedal is soft but does not go all the way to the floor.Maybe 2-3 in from floor.
I tried to bleed it again but this time i have little to no fluid comeing out after i loosen the bleeder screw.Just on the back tough, the front bleeds like the way it is supposed to..AAAHHH.didnt know it was this complicated.
Is it because the spring is not attached? it seems like the spring would not affect this, but again im no expert.
Whats going on here?what should i do now.
Should i give up and have the car towed to a shop or man up and try to do it myself.
You know what, I was told the 7/8 bore would be a better fit for the manual braked on my car, from an expert here on this site.I do not know if the hardware on the car is original 69 camaro brake parts.

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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Last edited by sako; Mar 6th, 09 at 10:57 PM. Reason: forgot to ad something
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 09, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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sako
 
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Unhappy Re: master cylinder trouble

what the $#%& is wrong with my wilwood master 7/8 bore. When i install it on the car and i pump the brakes the fluid does not come out. But when i take it off and i push the rod in by hand the fluid come out.
I know the rod goes and comes out all the way when i press the peddal, but no fluid.
Does anyone know what im doing wrong? HELP

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 09, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: master cylinder trouble

Just wanted to share some pics of the way i bench bleed my m/c.
The stupid plastic bleeder kept getting the thread all jacked up after screwing couple of times. So i bought a break line and cut it in half and attached the plastic tubes to it o i can see the bubbles. here is the pics.


1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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