Saginaw 825 steering and headers - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 09, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Steve
 
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Saginaw 825 steering and headers

Every header manufacturer says that their headers won't work with a Saginaw 825 close ratio box on a 67-69 Camaro - I have a Saginaw Close ratio box that is snug to the exhaust manifold - but have no idea if it's an 825 box - Is there a way to identify this box? My box stands out from the frame 5 1/2 inches toward the engine bay - but not sure if that's the critical dimension or if it's the pitman arm or what. Any thoughts on how to identify an 825 box?

69 Pace Car and 69 Hard top
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 09, 06:42 PM
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Tom
 
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Smile Re: Saginaw 825 steering and headers

I would say No, it is not an 825 steering box. I believe the 1st gen's used a 600 series.

Knowing what engine frame stands you have, and which header to use is what you need to know.

If you have no idea and could care less, use Dynatech headers or Thorley Tri-Y's, they seem to fit well.


What engine do you have ? What year is your car ? Is this the original engine ? or what was the car "born" with ?

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 09, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Saginaw 825 steering and headers

The engine frame stands should be for a 350 - it was factory in the car -but how would I confirm that from looking at them, are there numbers or codes on them?

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 09, 06:59 PM
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Smile Re: Saginaw 825 steering and headers

Long Tube - Headers

Dougs D368 1967-1969...327 ... Frame Mounts(stands) and Engine Mounts. Stock size idler arm (not Moog !)
...................1967-1968...350...Frame Mounts(stands) and Engine Mounts. Stock size idler arm (not Moog !)
.......................... 1969...350 ... Frame Mounts (stands) and Engine Mounts. Stock size idler arm (not Moog !)

Hooker Competition Headers 1969...350 ... Frame Mounts (stands) and Engine Mounts. (2451)

DynoMax.........1967-1969...327 ... Frame Mounts(stands) and Engine Mounts. (No a/c)
Summit Brand..1967-1969...327 ... Frame Mounts(stands) and Engine Mounts. (No a/c) (Headers are made by DynoMax)

Doug Thorley...Tri-Y's all small Blocks

Dynatech Headers all

Hooker Competition Headers...1967-1969...396...Big Block Frame Mounts(stands) and Engine Mounts.

This Chart is an accumulation of information from Team Camaro members. It is not to be deemed as 100% accurate.

Many Cars of this age, are not 100% stock and your results may vary. Good Luck !

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 09, 07:07 PM
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Tom
 
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Talking Re: Saginaw 825 steering and headers

In 1969:

302/350 frame mounts are 2 5/16" wide

307/327 frame mounts are 2 9/16" wide




69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 09, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Saginaw 825 steering and headers

Rough measurement comes up with 2 3/8" so I'll assume they are 350s and a 600 series gear box so sounds like I'm good to go with many choices. Thanks for the information, exactly what I was looking for! I'm leaning toward Dougs but going to check the Dynatechs too.

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 09, 08:20 AM
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Re: Saginaw 825 steering and headers

FYI,
Saginaw power steering gears for Camaros and Chevelles were called 700 model gears. Manual steering gears were called 525 gears. I have never heard of a 825 model gear.
The 700 power gear was a somewhat larger than a typical manual gear for these cars. So maybe the header manufacturers are saying that their headers only fit manual steering cars?

There was an even bigger power gear called a model 708. It had a 80mm diameter piston. The 700 model gear had a 70mm diameter piston. Therefore the 708 gear was was just a bit larger in size. That gear was used on big Cadillacs, Buicks, and Oldsmobiles. But it was never used on Chevelles or Camaros.

Jim
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 09, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Steve
 
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Re: Saginaw 825 steering and headers

I believe the 825 that is referenced in the header applications for manufacturers is a later model box with a more robust gear - and so bigger box. From Dougs headers they said the factor box ( which I have verified is still in mine ) will work with their headers - so I am good to go except my idler arm which I believe is a moog and will have problems - now to find a factory sized idler arm and I am good to go, on paper anyway.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 09, 01:25 AM
Jane D
 
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Re: Saginaw 825 steering and headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJS69 View Post
In 1969:

302/350 frame mounts are 2 5/16" wide

307/327 frame mounts are 2 9/16" wide



Yeah…! even I was searching for the 825 steering box's dimension and not getting enough of good matters in hand to rectify it… your information will be helpful for me to go through it. Thanks for the info..!!


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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 09, 05:20 AM
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Re: Saginaw 825 steering and headers

There was another power steering gear that was manufactured at Saginaw in the middle 70s early 80s. It was called a 605 power gear. It had an acme screw inside the gear rather than recirculating balls. So it was designed to be a lower cost alternative to the typical Saginaw 700 power gear. It was actually a little lighter in weight but it had more internal friction because of the acme screw. The 605 can be identified by its round, wire retained side (actually top) cover rather than the four bolt type used on the 700. Because it was round, it just might have taken up a bit more space than the 700.

The late 1970s -1980s brought about the first real need for fuel economy improvements and therefore a need for lighter weight components. Since the 605 was lighter it was used on a good number of A-cars and F-cars during that time.

The more I think about it, this must be the gear they are talking about. Where 825 came from, "who knows?"

Jim

Last edited by JIML82; Nov 25th, 09 at 08:31 AM.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 09, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Steve
 
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Re: Saginaw 825 steering and headers

Interesting - first time I have seen that picture of a 605 and any 700 series - 700/708 is definitely stock on 69 - where did you dig that drawing up?

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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 09, 08:38 PM
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Re: Saginaw 825 steering and headers

Those two drawings were taken from a Pro Steering Systems gear chart.

www.prosteering.com/p_chevrolet.htm

Jim
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