Non IROC Steering Box - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old May 7th, 10, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary,Ab
Posts: 30
Non IROC Steering Box

I have read a few accounts of people saying putting an IROC (quick ratio) steering box in a first generation can give steering that is almost to quick. Has anyone put a regular (non-quick ratio)3rd gen steering box in. Would'nt this give a much better road feel with out the twichyness. I'm not racing I just want better road feel.
Any comments?
cons69rs is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old May 7th, 10, 04:27 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Saginaw, Michigan
Posts: 1,122
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

This Gen III information was in the Saginaw files. These are the Gen III 14:1 power gears.

1982, 83, 84
Alpha Code WN, Level IV, 14:1, 24-30 inch-lb valve

1985
Alpha Code WN, Level II, 14:1, 24-30 inch-lb valve (Note, Level IV in now a 14:1 gear)

1986 through 93
Alpha Code JL, Base Model, 14:1, 20-26 inch-lb valve

The Alpha Code is a sticker or an ink stamp on the die cast end cover or the die cast top cover. It was an assembly plant aid to identify the correct power gear for the correct job coming down the line. It wasn't designed as a long lasting identifyer.

The later Gen IIIs (86-93) will have a lighter effort valve than the earlier ones.
I am not sure how you determine if a Camaro is a Level IV or a Level II or a base.

Jim
JIML82 is offline  
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old May 7th, 10, 08:29 PM
Senior Tech
Steiner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lyman, SC
Posts: 8,348
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

To me, better road feel comes from the increased steering effort that the IROC box has. From what I could find, the ratio was the same for both of them but the IROC (sport suspension) has higher effort.

Here is the Car Craft article with the boxes listed.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles..._steering.html

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

'69 Camaro Beater-SFT 327-M20-Moser 4.10-sold
'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled
Steiner is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old May 7th, 10, 11:03 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: California
Posts: 2,353
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

I think the over sensitive complaints come from 2 sources.

The wrong combination of steering arm/pitman arm causing the steering to be too quick. If you have the short steering arms and the long pitman arm its not a good recipe.
Or not having a good alignment.

Remember this steering box came on a car from the factory, it could not have been too quick or sensitive. It was a regular production car. And if I am not mistaken the gear ratio is the same (or close to it) for the stock quick ratio and the iroc.
400bird is offline  
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 10, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary,Ab
Posts: 30
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

"Another popular swap candidate is the third-generation ('82 to '93) Z28 Camaro or Pontiac Trans Am steering box. In the application chart, you can see the WS and XH boxes (among others) offer an excellent 12.7:1 fixed ratio. What is not so good for A-Body, early Camaro, and Nova owners is the third-gen Camaro box's limited 64- to 70-degree pitman arm sweep."

These magazine articles usually have so many mistakes you don't know what is correct.

The above quote would only apply to the 67 camaro with a pitman arm sweep of 87 deg. The 68-81 have a 67 deg sweep. Does this mean the XH code steering box with 64 deg sweep would be limited whereas the WS code steering box with a 70 deg sweep would be the better choice? Is the WS the non "IROC" box?
cons69rs is offline  
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 10, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary,Ab
Posts: 30
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

I should mention the quote comes from the above Car Craft web article.
Thanks Steiner.
cons69rs is offline  
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 10, 11:55 AM
Senior Tech
Steiner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lyman, SC
Posts: 8,348
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

All I can say is that I've got the remanufactured Cardone 27-6550 box that is specified for '88 Monte Carlo SS with sport suspension and '90 Z/28 with sport suspension and I friggin' LOVE it. Just got back from doing some break in miles on my new engine and tranny today. I replaced a practically brand new (although over ten years old) Year One fast ratio stock effort box.

You'll notice that the box is specified for two cars which had different sweeps stock. I believe they just put the widest sweep in the remanufactured box and specify it for whatever. The 27-6530 is for a non-sport suspension car. Same ratio, less effort. Not good as far as I'm concerned.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

'69 Camaro Beater-SFT 327-M20-Moser 4.10-sold
'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled
Steiner is offline  
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 10, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary,Ab
Posts: 30
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

You don't feel your turn radius is less??.
One other question. I've also read that the original power steering pump is not adequate for the new box. If I was to replace the original with a newer power steering pump the fittings should match the new box right?(Wouldn't need to worry about the Lee fittings). Would there be any problems fitting a newer style power steering pump in my 69 sbc.
Once I get all this sorted out I'm definetely going to do the switch.
Thanks
cons69rs is offline  
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 10, 01:26 PM
Senior Tech
Steiner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lyman, SC
Posts: 8,348
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

Quote:
Originally Posted by cons69rs View Post
You don't feel your turn radius is less??.
One other question. I've also read that the original power steering pump is not adequate for the new box. If I was to replace the original with a newer power steering pump the fittings should match the new box right?(Wouldn't need to worry about the Lee fittings). Would there be any problems fitting a newer style power steering pump in my 69 sbc.
Once I get all this sorted out I'm definetely going to do the switch.
Thanks
I don't notice anything different with turn radius. The steering wheel turns exactly as far as it did with the Year One restoration fast ratio box.

What changed on the pumps was the high pressure fitting. It went from a male flare to a female inverted flare around '73 or '74. So, almost all pumps are rebuilt on later cores. If you want to use stock style hoses with female end you just get a Weatherhead 1563 inverted flare to flare adapter fitting and get the Lee inserts. Or you can use a '74 Nova high pressure hose but you still need the Lee fittings. You need to use transmission cooler hose for the return as regular rubber hose gets eaten by PS fluid. Rebuilt pumps are only around $50 and should be set up for higher pressure than the original ones. I am running a rebuilt pump purchased last year with mine and it does fine. If you ask for one for a '69 Camaro it should be right as the only thing that changed later on was the shape slightly (still fits the same) but it'll output higher pressure than an original.

What changed on the late model box was the input shaft diameter and the hose fittings went from SAE threads and flare to metric threads and o-ring style. The Lee fittings are cheap and convert them back to flare so you can use original style hoses. The threads are close enough that the SAE hoses fit and since the flare does the sealing not the threads it is fine.

Here is a thread where I laid it out for someone else. I need to note that am only passing on information that others have done and am not taking credit for it. Big thanks to those who put the stuff together.

https://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=178441

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

'69 Camaro Beater-SFT 327-M20-Moser 4.10-sold
'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled
Steiner is offline  
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 10, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary,Ab
Posts: 30
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

Thanks Steiner, Great explanation!
cons69rs is offline  
post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 16th, 10, 10:38 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 6
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

Hi 400bird. I am agree about the information that you posted. Thanks.
cerealjoe is offline  
post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 10, 11:48 AM
Moderator
David Pozzi
 
davidpozzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Central California, USA
Posts: 10,096
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

Check your outer steering arms.
If they are the short arms 5.25" from axle center to tie rod end, and you use the long 5.75" pitman arm, then the 12 to 1 ratio is going to yield around 2.25 turns lock to lock.

If you have the long pitman and long outer arms 6", with 12 to 1 box, the lock to lock is going to be almost 3 turns.

2.25 turns is rather fast, but with stiff feel valving, a 14" steering wheel, and good alignment it works well for me but some guys will feel it's too quick. The fix would be to put a short PS pitman arm on it. With the long outer arms, the steering will be fairly slow, even with the long pitman.
David

Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

67 RS 327 original owner. 1965 Lola T-70
davidpozzi is offline  
post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 10, 11:54 PM
Senior Tech
Pete
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 314
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

Have to agree with these comments, its the higher effort more than the quicker ratio that makes this box so nice. I got mine at junkyard, XH box. No difference in turning radius. You will need to make a custom pressure line with new fittings, its very easy actually. Use the stock return line with the Lee adapter. And be sure top grab the valve and spring out of the power steering pump from the donor car at the junkyard. I just did this whole swap a couple years ago for a total cost of around $150.

Pete
1968 Camaro
2009 Porsche 911 Carrera S

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pete68 is offline  
post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 26th, 10, 06:34 AM
Senior Tech
Dustin
 
DVINNY's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 581
Re: Non IROC Steering Box

Quote:
Originally Posted by cons69rs View Post
You don't feel your turn radius is less??.
My box was the Cardone 27-6550, and I am very dissappointed. The turning radius is much less, and I still have very low effort.


I don't think I received the box that I was supposed to (27-6550, the box had this #, but I have to question)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DVINNY is offline  
post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 26th, 10, 08:26 AM
Senior Tech
Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 7,749
Smile Re: Non IROC Steering Box

VARIABLE RATIO ! I have the AGR steering box. I tried the 12:1 ratio box and did not like it. They changed mine to the 13 -16 :1 variable ratio box and I am much happier with it.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
TJS69 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome