best upper.lower control arms for 500.00? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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kelly
 
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best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

hey guys im on s tight budget for rebuilding the front subframe of my 67 camaro. i have torn it down to a bare subframe and was going to use the factory control arms, infact i have already purchased the front end replacement kit. BUT...i was looking on ebay and found 3 different tubular control arms for under 500.00. is there one out there for 500 or less that is better than the others?? i know the ball joints will be junk on most of them, but i was more worried about the a arms hitting the spindles, rotors, etc.. have you guys purchase the ones from pro comp or ccp? please advise.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 12:11 PM
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Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

hey kelly heres a link i found if you do a search under tubular a arms or factory a arms alot pops up that might better answer your questions on this. if you read the posts in this link (not many on this particular one) but it also tells you what to search for to get all your answers. https://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...actory+tubular good luck man i hope this helps you out.

Rich


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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 12:19 PM
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Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

hey kelly i forgot to ask, just a quick question not that they are wrong by any meens but is there a reason you want to get tubular a arms and not run your factory ones? the reason i ask is you say your on a tight budget and if you just plan on cruising around or even just having fun in it the factory a arms will do just fine for you and you can use that 500$ or so for something else you might need. im not sure how extensive your car build might be but that's just a thought. well good luck man and post up some pics for us we'd all love to see your car.

Rich


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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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kelly
 
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Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

what can i do to factory a -arms to improve performance?? dont want to cut on them. just bolt in parts please.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 02:22 PM
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Tom
 
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Smile Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

Do the guldstrand mod. It is free !

http://www.pozziracing.com/first_gen...0upper%20mount

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 02:25 PM
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Tom
 
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Smile Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

If you don't want to do the guldstrand mod, just change your upper control arms. Cheap kits are usually that... cheap kits. You get what you pay for.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 02:26 PM
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Rico
 
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Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

on a 500 budget.... stock lowers,, Derlin bushings new balljoints.
SPC uppers and tall balljoint...
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 02:29 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJS69 View Post
If you don't want to do the guldstrand mod, just change your upper control arms. Cheap kits are usually that... cheap kits. You get what you pay for.
Upper control arms with stock height ball joints are NOT a substitute for the G-mod.

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 03:48 PM
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Tom
 
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Smile Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

Some upper control arm's have corrections done to them, similar to the G-mod.

http://www.detroitspeed.com/productp..._arms_prod.htm

The cheap arm's are just copy's of a stock arm. These are usually meant for Dirt track stock cars and not road vehicles.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 03:54 PM
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Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJS69 View Post
Some upper control arm's have similar corrections done to them similar to the G-mod.

The cheap arm's are just copy's of a stock arm. These are usually meant for Dirt track stock cars and not road vehicles.
No, they don't have similar corrections done to them similar to the G-mod unless they also include tall ball joints. They may build in more caster, and as a result of that additional caster have slightly more camber in a turn, but they do not provide camber gain like the G-mod/tall ball joints/tall spindle.

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 05:17 PM
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Robert
 
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Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkelcy View Post
No, they don't have similar corrections done to them similar to the G-mod unless they also include tall ball joints. They may build in more caster, and as a result of that additional caster have slightly more camber in a turn, but they do not provide camber gain like the G-mod/tall ball joints/tall spindle.

Let me ask, more camber in a turn...camber gain,,,,etc etc. Why would you want that, for racing? I think many street car owners get lured into this when they have no intention on autocross or other forms of competitive racing, stock, rebuilt suspension is great, for the daily cruiser/car show guy.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 06:45 PM
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Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stGenLvr View Post
Let me ask, more camber in a turn...camber gain,,,,etc etc. Why would you want that, for racing? I think many street car owners get lured into this when they have no intention on autocross or other forms of competitive racing, stock, rebuilt suspension is great, for the daily cruiser/car show guy.
I agree - the stock suspension is fine for a daily cruiser/car show guy. However, if you're going to drive your car hard on twisty roads, correcting the front end geometry pays a lot of dividends.

The Guldstrand mod, tall ball joints or tall spindles improve the camber curve for first generation F bodies. Improving the camber curve has the important effect of maintaining a larger tire contact patch when the front end is loaded in a turn. Maintaining a larger tire contact patch in turn both improves the speed you can carry through the turn and saves the tires. Take a look here at the tires on a '68 Camaro that ran at Streets of Willow, with no camber correction:



Here's the same car from a distance:



Now look at two cars with camber correction:


and the car above without:



Notice how the top of the front tires on the cars with camber correction are tucked much farther into the wheel well than on the car without camber correction? That translates into speed and safety.

So, if you're cruising to a show, there's no need to do anything to the front end; if you're driving your car hard anywhere - street or track - fixing the front end can both improve the handling of the car and save a lot of money in longer tire life. The chunking in the pictures above is simply an accelerated version of improper tire wear over several thousand miles.

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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Last edited by Mkelcy; Jun 6th, 10 at 07:08 PM.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 10:42 PM
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Tom
 
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Smile Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkelcy View Post
No, they don't have similar corrections done to them similar to the G-mod unless they also include tall ball joints. They may build in more caster, and as a result of that additional caster have slightly more camber in a turn, but they do not provide camber gain like the G-mod/tall ball joints/tall spindle.
First of all, I will say that I don't know much about this subject. I will however point out in this picture of a DSE control arm, you can see how it offsets your spindle. Just as the guldstrand mod does. (moves your stock upper arm). I would call this similar !



I do not know what type of ball joint they use.

I was simply giving another option to doing the g-mod.

As said for 90% of the people, stock is fine.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 10, 10:57 PM
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Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJS69 View Post
First of all, I will say that I don't know much about this subject. I will however point out in this picture of a DSE control arm, you can see how it offsets your spindle. Just as the guldstrand mod does. (moves your stock upper arm). I would call this similar !



I do not know what type of ball joint they use.

I was simply giving another option to doing the g-mod.

As said for 90% of the people, stock is fine.
Offsetting the spindle is caster, not camber gain. The important thing the G-mod does is lower the UCA mounting point, which creates more camber gain. The movement of the UCA mounting point rearward (which is what the DSE UCA does) simply allows for more caster, or more caster with fewer alignment shims.

Take a look here:
https://www.camaros.net/forums/showpo...2&postcount=13
https://www.camaros.net/forums/showpo...0&postcount=20
https://www.camaros.net/forums/showpo...8&postcount=28

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 7th, 10, 11:57 PM
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Re: best upper.lower control arms for 500.00?

You guys are going to talk me into doing that dang G mod. Took a buddy up through Caesar's Head this weekend and he said "Holy crap. This thing has no roll and doesn't break loose. As good as you've got it handling I don't know why anyone would spend all that extra money on xxx stuff." The G mod must be the crown jewel to doing good springs, fat anti-sway, good shocks, good bushings, and good tires.

How does it affect tire life for a car that sees mostly normal roads but likes to burn up the mountains on the weekend? My tires can't be rotated.....




'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled
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