wilwood bleeding questions - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 10, 07:02 AM Thread Starter
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Eli
 
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wilwood bleeding questions

I have read all the threads i can find on the forum about wilwood brakes, bleeding, etc. and cant find some answers. I have installed wilwood discs all the way around and each caliper has four bleeders. Do i bleed all four? Someone said that there is a crossover tube that goes side to side but i couldn't see it. I have also installed all new lines and wilwood master cylinder and have fluid at all four corners but zero pressure. I bench bled the master in the car. Its all manual brake system and was totally level. I adjusted the rod so that the master totally releases but seems like the pedal hits the floor before it goes all the way in. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 10, 09:35 AM
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

I have a manual 4 disc Wilwood setup with their tandem MC. My calps only have 2 bleeders, top and bottom. Correct way to bleed is via the top bleeders. I had similar issue where I had fluid at all four corners but the pedal was soft. Turned out that I did not get all the air when I bench bled the MC. I ended up doing another bench bleed with the MC on the car. That did the trick for me. Also, make sure that all your brake lines are tight. I thought I had all of mine tight but then found a couple of leaks...

Matt

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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 10, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

Thanks for the info I will check for any leaks. Did you leave the brake pedal attached when you bench bled or did you unhook it so you could get a full stroke?
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 10, 12:14 PM
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

I left the brake pedal attached...

Matt

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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 10, 01:28 PM
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

Bleed only the upper outer.
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 10, 06:49 AM Thread Starter
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

I bled the brakes 10-12 times this weekend with no improvement in the pedal. I took the master back off and bench bled it again. Then i bled them a few more times only bleeding the upper bleeders and never got a hard pedal. I am not sure what im missing. I dont have any leaks or anything that is suspicious at all. But no matter how many times i bleed them i get no pedal. Should i invest in a vacuum bleeder? Also on the wilwood site it says to make sure the the calipers are totally vertical? The backs already are but the front are at a slight angle in the mounted position. I dont really think there could be air trapped because they are pretty much straight up and down and i have them safety wired, torqued, loctite already. Not sure where the problem is???
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 10, 08:52 AM
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

Hmmm...I guess it could be a bad MC but that would be my last guess. I will go ahead and ask the obvious question, are you bleeding correctly? Assuming two person method with one person pumping the pedal while the other works the bleeder screw. Pump up pedal and hold tension, open the bleeder screw letting the pedal sink to the floor - hold pedal at the sunk position and close the bleeder screw. Repeat. Bleed starting with the pass/rear, driver/rear, pass/front, driver/front. Watch your fluid level in the MC making sure you never get too low.

Matt

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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 10, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

Thats how i bled them. It never got to low. Im not sure why its not getting hard. Its a new wilwood tandem master. Can i test the master? I hope its not a bad part. I suppose if the pedal isn't getting hard it doesn't matter if i had a vacuum system or not. I have bled lots of brakes and never had this much trouble.
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 10, 11:18 AM
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

This sounds like my story but the second bench bleed with the M/C on the firewall did the trick. I bet I did +50 pedal pumps before I got that nasty bubble out that I was seeing in the hose.

Matt

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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 10, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

When you bench bled the master attached to the firewall did you unhook your pedal and use your hand or did you just use the pedal?
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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 10, 12:03 PM
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

I used the pedal.

Matt

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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 10, 02:47 PM
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProdigyCustoms View Post
Bleed only the upper outer.
Wilwood support told me to bleed all 4 uppers starting with the inside.

-Randy


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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 10, 08:14 PM
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

Some times it helps to attach clear tubes to the bleeders and funnel them into a jar with brake fluid in the bottom to keep air from being sucked back in. Easier to see the bubbles.

68 302 M20 - 85 IROC Z
The older I get the faster I was.
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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 10, 06:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

I tried bleeding again last night and still no pedal. What is the best way to test the master cylinder? If it is a bad part can it be fixed easily or do I need to send it back?
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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 10, 08:51 AM
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Re: wilwood bleeding questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli's67 View Post
...I adjusted the rod so that the master totally releases but seems like the pedal hits the floor before it goes all the way in...
Just rereading the original post...I still think it's something other than a bad MC. Bad MC's do happen but are rare. Are you saying above that the rod is not being pushed far enough into the MC due to the pedal hitting the floor? If you were to disconnect the pedal and manually push the rod into the MC, would the rod go in deeper? If so, how much deeper? Have you checked the following for leaks?
Fittings at the MC.
Fittings at the distribution block.
Fittings between the hard lines and flex lines (assuming flex lines at each corner and rear line to differential.
Fittings at the rear T.
Fittings at the prop valve.
Fittings at each caliper.
When I say check for leaks, I not only mean visual leaks but fitting tightness as in put a wrench on it...

When you bleed especially the rears, does the fluid shoot out or drip out when you open the bleeder? Can you see bubbles or pure fluid?

I am not sure if there is a way to test for a bad MC. Maybe someone else will chime in...

Matt

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