Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up??? - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 10, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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Jason
 
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Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

When I bought my car it had a stock style, power front disc set up on it with drum in the back. With an 11" stock style power booster, master with no bleeders, & meetering block bolted on the frame.

I ditched the stock style, and replaced it with Baer Brakes on all 4 corners. The Track System w/ 13" Rotors on the front, Sport System w/ 12" Rotors on the back. But I'm still using the stock style booster/master and meetering block. But with a Baer Adjustable Prop Valve mounted down stream from the stock meetering block on the rear brake line.

It brakes much better than before, but I think I'm losing out on performance due to the way it's set up. I know I need a disc/disc style master, I'm not sure if how the prop valve is mounted after the meetering block being ok?

I've been doing a lil research, and I like the idea of this newer style booster/master that DSE offers. Looks more modern with the braking feel of a newer car.

http://www.detroitspeed.com/productp...oster_prod.htm

I'm not sure how much vaccuum my engine's making. It's the stock 350 bored .30 over, stock heads, with basic bolt ons. I think I could run the DSE booster with no issues but that's why I'm asking for some opinions.

Any feedback or suggestions are appreciated!


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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 10, 10:00 PM
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Steiner
 
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

Matt's (Right Stuff) has a disc/disc master cylinder and disc/disc combo valve that work well together. The combo unit is nonadjustable and has the distribution block and proportioning valve all in one unit.

I've got to redo the car I just bought. It was a front disc car that the p.o. added rear discs to but it looks like it still has the old m/c, distribution block and the valve under the driver's door. It doesn't feel nearly as good as my other car with properly set up four wheel discs. It stops good but just doesn't feel right.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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Last edited by Steiner; Sep 9th, 10 at 11:06 PM.
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 10, 10:04 PM
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

It just astounds me that so many people post with similar questions on Baer and Wilwood setups - which MC/booster should I use? Don't these things come with any instructions/directions/advice?


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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 10, 12:39 PM
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

BPOS...even if they did, I'm sure there's ALWAYS a better way to do it!

Armando

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 10, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steiner View Post
Matt's (Right Stuff) has a disc/disc master cylinder and disc/disc combo valve that work well together. The combo unit is nonadjustable and has the distribution block and proportioning valve all in one unit.

I've got to redo the car I just bought. It was a front disc car that the p.o. added rear discs to but it looks like it still has the old m/c, distribution block and the valve under the driver's door. It doesn't feel nearly as good as my other car with properly set up four wheel discs. It stops good but just doesn't feel right.
My car is the same, brakes good but could be a lot better. And my brake pedal sits lower compared to my clutch pedal. I checked and the rod is in the lower hole on the brake pedal assembly.

I checked out the Right Stuff website, it looks like they only offer one option for a disc/disc master. There's very little description, not even a picture.

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 10, 02:39 PM
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

Quote:
It just astounds me that so many people post with similar questions on Baer and Wilwood setups - which MC/booster should I use? Don't these things come with any instructions/directions/advice?
Or use the forum search function above so they can get their answer straight away , and save support people from typing the same thing yr in yr out, every week or so.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 10, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steptoe View Post
Or use the forum search function above so they can get their answer straight away , and save support people from typing the same thing yr in yr out, every week or so.
I did a search, but everything I saw was older. And nothing specific about the DSE Booster which is what I was interested in.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 10, 04:53 PM
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay'srs/ss View Post

I checked out the Right Stuff website, it looks like they only offer one option for a disc/disc master. There's very little description, not even a picture.

Here's a picture of their booster, m/c, and combo valve with my old engine. If you call and talk to Matt, I think they offer options for chromed booster and m/c setups and different sized boosters. That is the economy 11" one in the pic. Hard to see but the combo unit mounts using a bracket on one of the m/c studs.


Oh, and the brake pedal is going to sit a little lower. The clutch has that return spring on the fork that makes the pedal go back up to the stop in the car. Power brakes don't use any kind of return spring on the arm so it just sits where it stops, but manual brakes use a return spring to pull the pedal back. I reused my old manual brake return spring to level them out after I did the swap.



'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 10, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steiner View Post
Here's a picture of their booster, m/c, and combo valve with my old engine. If you call and talk to Matt, I think they offer options for chromed booster and m/c setups and different sized boosters. That is the economy 11" one in the pic. Hard to see but the combo unit mounts using a bracket on one of the m/c studs.


Oh, and the brake pedal is going to sit a little lower. The clutch has that return spring on the fork that makes the pedal go back up to the stop in the car. Power brakes don't use any kind of return spring on the arm so it just sits where it stops, but manual brakes use a return spring to pull the pedal back. I reused my old manual brake return spring to level them out after I did the swap.


Thanks for the pic! You're reffering to Matt from Classic Bowtie right? I'll hit him up to see what they offer. The one thing is I didn't want a "blinged out" booster this time, or the master. I like the idea of having a late model, plastic resevoir master. That way you can see if the fluid gets low.

Thanks also for the tip on the brake pedal return spring, I'm definately going to put that back on so they line up.

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 10, 07:44 PM
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

Assuming your engine make 15" vacuum (vacuum gauge is cheap from the parts store), with power brakes you need a 1" or 1 1/8 bore master for Disc / Disc regardless of who the manufacturer.

The DSE booster / master works great if you like a all business look, a factory late model look. We sold one of those set ups today.

***solicitation removed***

Last edited by DjD; Sep 12th, 10 at 08:37 AM.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 10, 11:16 PM
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

Steiner I like your colour scheme...not a colour I would paint my car... but it looks right, little busy, but meant to be...it works very nice.

Quote:
Assuming your engine make 15" vacuum (vacuum gauge is cheap from the parts store),
The vac doesnt matter in practical application...the only time is if idle out of a service station using brakes and they go hard...at 2 mph
The other is similar, rolling down a hill.
Every other time the car has engine brake above 10 mph with good vac.
I know this cause I drove mine daily like that for a good 10 yrs.

Quote:
with power brakes you need a 1" or 1 1/8 bore master for Disc / Disc regardless of who the manufacturer.
So many make an issue of the bore..I ran think the 1" Holden HQ MC for yrs very nice..then replaced that with a Camaro 1 1/8... the only difference is once the pressure is starting on the pads to full hard on is a tiny tiny little shorter and requires a tiny tiny little less pressure...If you didnt know you wouldnt know the bloody difference

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 10, 06:23 AM
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

Steptoe, I understand what your saying about your being able to drive with a low vacuum power assisted brake car. Your obviously a true Hot Rodder like myself. Personally, in the past I have a tendency to accept nuances in my personal vehicles that would not be acceptable to the masses. But for me often times in the past in exchange for one thing I would sacrifice another. But it is not good general advice to tell others to do what I have done. This is a true "Do as I say, not as I do scenario".

And the thing is now we have some many solutions to have your cake and eat it to as it refers to activating the brakes with the availability of awesome manual master that almost feel power assisted or Hydroboost if someone has low vacuum they can still have great power brake performance and feel.

The problem with low vacuum power brakes is:

The car will make vacuum at cruise, you let off the gas to slow down and hit the brakes, not problem, Good power brake pedal, feels right

lift off the brakes slightly (car is idling down) and re hit them like we commonly do approaching a stop light, sign, turn, and the second hit of the brake, hard pedal, Slight sinking feeling in stomach

lift again a bit and the 3rd hit of the brakes, REALLY hard pedal, Balls are now in your stomach! LOL!

You and I have both dealt with this and looked it over. The OP does not have to do this.

I am betting the OP has plenty of vacuum as it sounds like he has a mild small block. If not, there are manual master cylinder solutions for consistant brakes.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 10, 12:32 PM
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

Jason,

I sent you a PM.

Mike
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 10, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

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Jason,

I sent you a PM.
Thanks Mike!

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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 10, 04:43 PM
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Re: Which Brake Booster/Master Set Up???

Quote:
.....lift off the brakes slightly (car is idling down) and re hit them like we commonly do approaching a stop light,.....
I dont know the driving habits of others but 'pumping brakes ..letting right off and reappling those people should take up needle piont instead...in 10 yrs I never had that ever arise, and I drive the car daily, and tow my vintage cars with it.
And the only places are those that I mentioned...and in our driveway, just as I pull into the car port....it is around 150 yds long and dow a gentle slope ..ONLY if I have to stop before rolling the few feet into the carport...which is very rare.
I certainly under stand from your professional piont not sending a car out your doors and the possible legal implications taking care of every eventuality no matter how small ....but a private build thats very different
I take your piont on cake and eat it to....

I was running an idle of 5" car rolling at idle 9" which wa just 'getting there' car rolling at walking pace, 12" gave me brakes.
And yep had a vac gauge in the cab for 30 yrs...an elcheapo, attached to the screw under the ledge above the wiper switch.
I cant figure why guys dont have them...a must to know what is going on.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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