D.Pozzi Spring Chart Question - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 06:44 AM Thread Starter
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David,
I was on your site looking at the moog spring chart.

On the 6041 spring it shows the "load height" as 11.5.

My question is how is this rate calculated. Is this dependent on the application.

ie: SB350 with cast iron heads and A/c?

I have Alum. Heads, Intake and radiator. Would this change this rate?

Thanks,
Tony

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 07:04 AM
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That chart shows for given spring there is a design height and load. The load is the front end weight minus the unsprung weight and multiplied by the leverage of the suspension. It is the actual "load" the spring "sees".
David

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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So, how would that apply to my car?

Is my car going to be higher than that load height?

Thanks
Tony
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 08:53 AM
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Yes, probably higher. The 6041 needs to be cut anyway. It is a rear spring for a station wagon! It's not a Camaro spring.
David

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 09:54 AM
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If you use the 6041 I'd say cut about (little less) 2 coils then fit it up and drive on it for awhile. They will settle some. Then trim down til it sits how you want it.

You might wanna cut one coil from each end I was gonna do that but decided to just do one end. An angle cutter is about the best way to do it. I think mine are cut almost 3 coils but I could be wrong. Plan on using some good shocks cause I'm using KYBs and they suck with em. And don't plan on a cushy ride either.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 11:22 AM
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Just cut one end, the spring is tapered on both ends from the factory. If you leave one end alone, at least one end will sit in the spring pocket properly and not shift around.

There is no good way to predict what ride height you will have when cutting springs due to the taper of the spring seat not matching the spring.

Mine were 13.5" tall for my 67 Camaro which was pretty low for autocross. I would leave the spring an inch or so taller and try it there.
David

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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David,

I was asking because I was thinking that if my car is lighter and I try to cut enough coil off to get it to the height I want the rate of the spring will get too high (like 600-700 lbs.)


So, I was wondering if I shouldn't get shorter spring with about the same rate. Like the MOOG 6442 which is already a .5 inch lower with about the same rate.

Also do Vette springs fit a Camaro? I was looking at some from "Vette Brakes" that were F-41 550lbs springs.

Tony

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 07:50 PM
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I'm pretty sure stainless steel brakes sells a 550 spring for a Camaro. The early vettes up through the 70's uses the same diameter spring as a camaro. I don't know about spring installed height though.
What rate do you want?
David

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 01, 05:27 AM Thread Starter
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I want to race on road courses someday. So Im guessing between 500-600. with a lower than stock ride height.

What do you recommend?

Tony

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 01, 09:30 AM
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If you are going to use a tire with pretty good traction and you will have an engine with good power, I would guess you need a front spring in the 650 to 700 or 725 range.
I tried to rate my cut down 6041's but it does not safely fit in my spring tester, I need to modify it so the spring does not come flying out!
Hotchkis and Guldstrand say the rate of their spring is in the low 700 lb range depending on how much it is cut.
I plan on using a 650 lb Hyperco street stock spring with 5" id like the stock Camaro spring, and a "hidden adjuster" on top of it to adjust height.
This way I know for sure what rate I have, and adjusting height does not affect the rate and will be predictable. It will make experimenting with spring rates and making ride height changes much easier.
This is the method used by Mark Steilow on the "Thrasher".

The adjuster I show on my web page needs a piece of 5" tube welded to the top and cut with the spring profile in it to move the spacer down in the proper range. There are adjusters available made that way allready.
The spring I will use has a 9.5" free height, so the spacer has to make up the difference.

Carrera and Hal make coil over shock kits for the First gen.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
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First Gen Suspension Page
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Chev 350 Can-Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 10-16-2001).]
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 01, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Do they make coil overs with the rate that you are talking about (600-700lbs)?

Tony
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 01, 06:26 AM
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I think they do. http://www.carrerashocks.com/home.html http://www.halshocks.com/
The only problem with that method, is I think you are limited on what shock rates you can use. You aren't going to be able to use a Bilstein or Koni.
I have heard hints Bilstein may produce a coil over, but don't know if it will ever happen.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page
First Gen Suspension Page
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Chev 350 Can-Am Vintage Racer
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 01, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks David,

You have been a lot of help.

Tony
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