JL8 brakes - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 02, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
 
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I am in the process of building a JL8 brake setup on my 67 camaro, but I`m not interested in making it period correct. I need the brackets for the front and the brackets for the rear. Plus, I want to use the corvette style parking brakes. Anyone know where to get these brackets and how much? Plus, what is the weight difference with these brakes as opposed to a more modern setup with aluminum calipers? What is the benefits of the modern setup? Is it just weight savings?
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 02, 06:52 PM
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David Pozzi
 
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Biggest benefit is weight savings. The JL8 work very well and have a great pedal feel.
A lighter caliper can be used on the vette rotors placed over your existing drum hubs.

The JL8 brackets are available but VERY expensive! Vette calipers for the JL8 are being reproduced.
The main fault besides the weight is the poor piston sealing on the origonal calipers.

The Vette Brakes repro calipers have an O ring system that is more modern.
Check my suspension page below for lots of info like this.

The late vette 12" and 13" swap is the easiest and uses a lighter late vette caliper. the brackets are available cheap from several sources.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
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67 RS 327 Origonal owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 13th, 02, 04:35 AM Thread Starter
 
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I realize the faults of the earlier 4 piston calipers due to the fact that they had a tendency to leak at the pistons. Have the aftermarket companies addressed this issue with resleeving the calipers with stainless steel sleeves and making o-ring pistons for the calipers? Does that basically eliminate the problem with trapping air behind the seal which caused the leaks in the first place with the old style lip seal piston? Also, the more modern brake setup benefits from ABS, so if you adapt those to the early camaro without the ABS. Would you lose some of the braking ability of that system? Would the JL8 setup be a better choice in that area? Like I said in my original post, I am not trying to achieve the exact OEM JL8 setup. That would be too costly, but I do want the corvette 4 piston caliper on all 4 wheels. In my own opinion, it just makes sense to me that a 4 piston caliper is superior to the 2 piston or even single piston caliper in stopping distance. Would anyone agree with me on that? Thanks for the response. This is a great site and it is very informative.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 13th, 02, 06:29 AM
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David Pozzi
 
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I kinda wonder about the single piston vs four piston comparison.
I think the higher rigidity of the four piston caliper theoretically makes the brakes slightly more controllable, maybe a better feel for the driver.
But in reality the factory single piston or two piston late vette calipers SEEM to be working great for everyone.
There must be some reason all racing brakes use four piston calipers though. Maybe they are just easier to make or lighter.

The Vette Brakes repro calipers have an O ring system but I don't know for sure if the O ring is in the piston or bore.
In the bore is better. The vette seal slides out as the pads wear and when you put new pads in, the pistons get pushed back into an often corroded area and the seals leak.
SS sleeves are supposed to work, but I have a friend who has those and he still had problems! I don't know why.

Baer has a good kit with the Alcon four piston calipers on it.
Willwood has kits but the rotors are too small in my opinion.
I think a rotor the size of the old vettes is a good place to start.
The JL8 rotor has more negative offset and makes more room for a caliper than the later vette rotors do.
I am going to use custom aluminum hats with 12.19 rotors and some aftermarket four piston calipers on my 67.
David


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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page
First Gen Suspension Page
67 RS 327 Origonal owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 03-13-2002).]
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 02, 03:44 AM
 
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I went to the corvetteforum.net website and found some caliper brackets that allow one to remove the stock JL-8 calipers and mount Wilwood Dynalite calipers. Besides the obvious weight advantage, this also addresses one of the limitations of the JL-8 brakes: the calipers extend out beyond the mounting surface of the wheel, thereby limiting ones wheel choices without the use of spacers.

The website that shows the part is http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/427v8/wilwood.shtml . Has anybody seen or used these brackets?

Ed
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 02, 06:31 AM
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David Pozzi
 
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Ed,
Those brackets are for a vette spindle which is different bolt pattern and offset to a Camaro spindle.
I'd also be interested in how those calipers work on a Vette or Camaro.
Many small calipers will flex a bunch at the 1000 to 1200 psi it takes to lock a wheel.

A light car would have pressures that are half that of a Camaro, so calipers used on a Camaro need to be stiffer.
A smaller caliper can be stiffer than a large one because there is less length to bridge.
BUT, notice the small caliper half bolts are not in line with the caliper pistons. The caliper will want to flex apart on the hub side. With a smaller rotor, you cold put the bolts in line, but on a large rotor, the caliper isn't long enough to put the bolts near the center line of the pistons.

I think on a small car, there isn't a problem, but there HAS to be a limit on how heavy a car those calipers can be used on.
NASCAR uses very light brakes on their super speedway cars where they just use them to stop in the pits. They don't use anything that light though.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page
First Gen Suspension Page
67 RS 327 Origonal owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 03-14-2002).]
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 02, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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I appreciate everyone`s replies on my subject. I have already bought the corvette 4 piston calipers, vette master cylinder with booster and all 4 rotors. I stil need the brackets and parking brake assembly. I know where I`m going to get the parking brake assembly. I`m just not ready to buy it just yet. I wanted to get the brackets first. I have already researched the JL8 brakes and have talked to a few people about it and the more modern kits that are on the market today. From all of my research, I have discovered that the JL8 setup is far superior in it`s braking abilities than just about anything else on the market. The only draw back I`ve seen so far of it, is the extra weight they put on the corners. I have the updated form of the calipers, so I hope the leaking problem is solved. This car is not my daily driver. It`s just a weekend cruise car. I am still currently in the process of restoring it, so it will be a little while before I get to mount the brakes, but I am ready to get the parts. I don`t have to worry about wheel sizes because I am using vette ralley`s. The JL8 brakes is lighter than my current brake setup. I have 4 wheel manual drums now. I had a friend that bought wilwood brakes for his 68 camaro and he hated them. They would over heat on him with repeated hard stops because of the thin rotors. He eventually discarded the brakes into his garbage can and went to a 69 braking system and is satisfied now. He wants the JL8 setup though. He is still suffering from excessive heat in his braking system, but not like it was with the wilwood setup. I would never buy the Baer setup because it is nothing but a GM braking system with their name on it. Anyone should not purchase those brakes unless you want to pay more for GM parts. I`m sticking with my JL8 setup and I`m sure that I will be very pleased with them. I was just curious about brackets and the actual weight difference compared to modern brakes. Thanks guys
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 02, 08:47 PM
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David Pozzi
 
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You will be very happy with those brakes, they work great.
Be sure to use the front rotors on the front.
They have less offset by only .100" If you put rear rotors on the front they will hit the nut at the top of the spindle.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page
First Gen Suspension Page
67 RS 327 Origonal owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 02, 03:13 AM
 
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I believe Stainless Steel Brakes has aluminum versions of the vette calipers. I don't know how much lighter they are, but they are twice the cost.

Ed
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 02, 04:25 AM
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I had a set of the reproduction front JL8 brackets and some front calipers that had been modified to use the Corvette pads with 2 pins and a set of the Pyrotex heat insulators but I sold all the stuff. The repro brackets are at least $400-450 in the catalogs and I sold mine for $300. I have all the original parts on my JL8 so I didn't need the extra stuff.

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Jeff H - 93 Indy 500 Pace Car driven daily, Hugger Orange 69 Z28 with JL8 brakes, cross-ram & GM fiberglass hood, TI setup, heater and radio delete, being restored
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 02, 05:31 AM
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Gene
 
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jeb, if you do a little research in past posts, you will find that most people here have figured out that Baer uses the same parts as GM.

Several people have spent time developing various "cheap big brake" or "CBB" combinations that use the PBR calipers and Corvette rotors. If you think Baer charges too much, you could certainly try to model one of those guy's combinations to get the same product cheaper.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 02, 08:24 AM
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Jeb67rs, I had considered what you wish to do and this is what I discovered. Corvette calipers will not fit original style JL8 brackets (front). The JL8 calipers are physically smaller. I have not been able to track down any of the major suppliers, SSBC etc. who make a bracket to accomplish this conversion. The Corvette bracket as David has mentioned will not work on the Camaro spindle. I am considering have a friend make the brackets from scratch, he says it shouldn't be a problem. Most of the JL8 conversion kits include a modified spindle to permit the larger calipers to be mounted. This is the route that I would suggest you take.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 02, 09:31 AM
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I believe Master Power sells the JL8 front brackers. I know they sell a JL8 front conversion, see Part # DB1781P on their web site.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 02, 12:15 PM
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Jim,
I have JL8 info linked to my suspension page below and have had two friends do the swap. One used a master power kit, and the other just bought a JL8 bracket from Classic Ind, and used a 60's vette caliper.

The JL8 uses a drum brake hub, and a normal vette caliper on a special JL8 only caliper bracket. A disc brake Camaro spindle is used which is identical to a drum spindle except the drum spindle has a longer upper boss. You have to cut down the boss to put either regular discs on, or use the JL8.

Again, there is no difference in JL8 calipers and early Vette calipers.
There IS a difference in four piston Camaro calipers 67-68, and the vette calipers.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page
First Gen Suspension Page
67 RS 327 Origonal owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 02, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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I believe I`m going to attempt to make my own brackets. I`m going to get the front brackets from a corvette and then the drivers side rear and see if I can`t fabricate something from them.
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