9.5" dia. x 2.5" rear drum brake swap info. - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 01, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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I've been digging around in my "library" and found an article that says 1967 to 1972 Olds Vista Cruiser station-wagon 1/2" wider drum brakes are a bolt-on to all "F"-bodies 10 and 12 bolts and "A"-bodies through 1977, plus all "F"-bodies with the corporate 8.5" rearend w/ the 10 bolt cover up to 1981 rearends if somebody just wants to keep their rear drums but yet want to upgrade to something better to help stop better.

I know that not everybody wants to go the rear CBB thing.

Hope this is of interest. pdq67



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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 01, 10:51 AM
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VERY good idea man! I'd be very interested
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 01, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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HwyStarJoe,

I w/ throw one other conversion out for consideration!

It is installing the early big cars 11" drums onto our cars rearends!

I think that 1963 to 1970 Chevrolet Bel-Air, Biscayne, Brookwood, Caprice, Impala, Kingswood and Townsman sedans and S/W's fit as well as 1977 to 1978 Chevelle Concours, Elky, Green brier, and 1973 to 1975 Laguna, Malibou and Monte Carlo Sedans and S/W's fit, too.

The main thing here is that the 5 x 4.75" small and medium cars bolt circle is needed so you don't have to redrill parts for your bolt circle. The early big cars had this bolt circle on the 10 and 12 bolt rears and the later cars had it on the 8.5" rears.

I haven't done any of these conversions or even read about them being done. I did a cross reference of the parts through a U.S.A. Brake Parts cat. years ago when I was trying to chase down the big 11" drum brakes that came stock on the famous 1965 BB Z-16 Chevelle before I got turned on to the "CBB" thing. Never did find out what front spindle was used on the Z-16!!!

Hope this is also of interest. pdq67



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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 01, 04:11 PM
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pdq and hwystarjoe,
I have the 11" drums in my Nova and like that conversion. I don't think there will be a big difference in going from 2" wide drums to 2 1/2' wide drums. I noticed a difference in the 11" drums tho. I got mine off a 76 Monte, but the list above is very complete.

If you want more info, feel free to ask.


PS. What is the CBB rear swap, pdq?

Bill C.


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Bill C.
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68 Camaro... someday!
71 Chevelle SS
70 Nova

[This message has been edited by BC (edited 11-18-2001).]
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 01, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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BC,

Hey, I have a buddy that I have known since high school w/ that handle. Berry is a great guy!!

CBB is the term for "cheap big brakes" David Pozzi gave cheap homemade stock type disc brake conversions.

My front conversion consists of 13" dia. 1988 Vette front rotors, a homemade flat steel plate caliper bracket that mates a wide single piston truck caliper to everything using my drum hubs.

My rear CBB conversion uses a 11.75" dia. 1989 Camaro rear rotor and a modified 1980 Seville Cad. caliper bracket and the Seville caliper to go on my 12 bolt.

I got interested in improving my cars stock drums when I finally decided to put it back on the road and realized just how bad the stock suckers stopped!! I knew the Z-16 Chevelle had four wheel 11" drums and used our 12 bolt and forged bolt-on steering arm spindle so I tried to figure out what was used. I think all they did was just put the big car rear drums on the Chevelle 12 bolt complete, then the spindle from the big car, too, by jockeying ball-joints! BUT don't know for sure.

Anyway, the disc stuff is better, although alot heavier then the drum stuff. pdq67



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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 01, 02:42 AM
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Cool... I already know where there's an acre of those models just sitting waiting for me to pluck the parts off of! The same place I got all the parts for a drum to disc swap in the front. Thanks guys!
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 01, 05:59 AM
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pdq,
yes, I am pretty familiar with the CBB front conversion and will possibly try that this winter on my nova, but I hadn't heard of the CBB rear disks. I have rear disks on my Chevelle using the rear setup off a 78 Caddy fleetwood, but have had some problems with it. I couldn't get it to work real good, so I eventually took off the Caddy rear calipers and put on some cheap GM front ones. That helped, but now I think there is still a vacuum issue with the power brakes and i am considering the manual swap. Do you have a template or anything showing how you modified the Seville bracket? Why did you have to modify the bracket?

joe,
Another thing about the larger rear drums is that the rest of the system stays stock, unlike the rear disks where you need new master cylinder, new prop valve, etc. Plus, it is a lot cheaper!

Good luck,
Bill C.


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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 01, 07:01 AM
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My middle name, and the name I'm gonna give this project when it's done is.... CHEAPER.


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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 01, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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He, He!! er, not cheap, JUST FRUGAL!!!

SWame w/ me!!



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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 01, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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He, He!! er, not cheap, JUST FRUGAL!!!

Same w/ me!!

BC, I am using 11.75" 1989 Camaro rear rotors instead of the stock 1980 Seville 10.5" rotors b/c they looked puny next to my 13" 1988 Vette front rotors.
I had to move all axle holes by 5/8" plus change the four outer holes to my 12 bolts pattern. I need to weld in some plugs and grind smooth so they look good and to add metal for two of the moved holes plus fill in the crescent shaped space that I created when I moved the center hole. No big deal, but I'm just lazy b/c I shoulda already had all this done.

I don't quite understand why you had prob's w/ the e-brake containing calipers unless you never got them adjusted up enough at the start of their use. If they are adjusted right, they should be floating on the guide bolts and rotors and only need tightened up every so often, unless I am missing something. I don't think axle slop has much to do here b/c they are supposed to float on them!! The only hassle that I can see is that our cars don't have the ratcheting take-up style e-brake pedal or handle like the stock arrangements had so we would need to manually adjust the cables to do the adjusting. IMHO.

What do you think? pdq67



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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 01, 03:07 PM
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Hey, it's ok to be frugal, or like around here if your wife seriously limits your car budget, then you have to be cheap and inventive!

pdq, That's a lot of work for a simple bracket! The rear TA rotors I am using are 11" and don't look too bad, but I'm ONLY running the 12" 1LE rotors up front! I figured that would be a pretty good balance. Have you ever tried to adjust these type calipers while they were installed? Ha! Let me know when you get around to trying it! One thing I would like to try is the smaller calipers like you are using, maybe they are better than the larger ones like I have. One of the biggest problems is that the return spring does not let the ratchet lever turn far enough to engage the next stop, so they just pull back to where they started from. Also, I'm pretty sure that whatever cable system comes stock on the Caddies pulls quite a bit farther than the stock Chevelle or Camaro ones. If I ever get bored (or rich) then maybe I'll try the smaller Seville setup on my Nova.

I really think you need to come out to Colorado and play with mine for a bit, then see if you really want to go there!

Bill C.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 01, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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BC,
I was thinking about what you said about the e-brake adjusting screw/lever thing not "ratcheting" enough b/c of lack of e-brake pedal travel and it not being a ratcheting mechanism in our cars in the first place.

I guess that I would just get under my car and pull on the cables until I got a good adjustment. IF THIS IS POSSIBLE?? Then adjust the cables slack take-up thing so that when I set my e-brake pedal, it would be tight! I prob. would check them at every oil change or so if you know what I mean.

What do you think b/c I'm gonna have to do something w/ them when they get loose. Come back, please. pdq67



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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 01, 07:58 AM
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pdq67,
Good luck trying it by hand, when I tried that method, the springs were just too stiff and I could not get much leverage to puul it so was unsuccessful.

What I did find out was that in my Chevelle, if I adjusted the ebrake cables pretty dang tight, then when the ebrake pedal would not go to the floor because the return spring on the caliper was fully compressed. I tried taking out the spring and cutting about 3 coils out of it, then stretching it out a bit so it was the same length. When reinstalled, the pedal would then travel to the floor and seem to ratchet out far enough to actually try and work. Again, I had trouble getting it adjusted to narrow the cap, so it would not move out far enough. I finally got tired of messing with it and pulled the calipers out for some regular ones.

One thing that I had trouble with is hitting the high-beam switch on the floor, so that stopped it about 1 1/2" inches fromt he floor, otherwise I would have had that much more travel.

Hope that helps,
Bill C.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 01, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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BC,
I wonder if we can mount the correct e-brake pedal ***'y into our cars so that we would have the ratchet action that is needed??

I was talking about pulling down on the cables under the car and not pulling from an end position long-ways. I really don't know what to think? pdq67



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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 01, 07:15 PM
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pdq67,
What is the corect pedal assy? Isn't the ebrake pedal in most GMs the same type? I think you can make the stock ebrake pedal work, it is probably more a matter of getting the caliper adjusted right in the first place. I saw another setup like mine at the junk yard this week and might try those calipers without rebuilding them to see if there is a difference.

As far as pulling on the calipers, I was pulling on the intermediate cable like the stock setup does, and it was pretty dang hard. I don't like to think I'm real wimpy, but those return springs on the calipers are strong!

Hope you had a good Turkey Day, see you in a few days, I'm out of town till Sunday!

Bill C.
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