What had non power discs? - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 01, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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I'm converting my front drums to disc and need to know if there were any cars available with non power front discs that I can get a master cyl from. Also, can I use the combination valve from the power disc car with non power? If there were no non power disc cars then what cars came with the small booster that will clear the tall valve covers on a big block? I think that I heard they are from 3rd gen camaros/IROC's. Anybody know for sure and are they a direct bolt in?

Thanks

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 3rd, 01, 06:05 AM
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I believe that it's been stated before that manual discs were an option in '67 only. I don't know about the use of the comb. valve.

If you go with a small booster, the 3rd gen is easily modified. The firewall bracket has mounting studs that need to be removed/drilled out to bolt it up. The pushrod is not threaded on the end but rather has an "eyelet". You can either cut off the eyelet and thread the rod or fabricate a bracket to accept the stock rod. This is the method I'm taking to give clearance for my BB swap.

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Bret Copsey
'68 Camaro base coupe
'92 Caprice wagon
'98 Malibu
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 3rd, 01, 06:25 AM Thread Starter
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I found a booster/master that I can pick up out of an 85 Berlineta. Were those 4 wheel disc of disc/drum? Do you think that would work or is there a certain year I should look for? I also found a guy parting an '01 Camaro SS. Would the booster from that car work or are they totally differant?

Sorry for all the questions, but I want to make sure I get this right the first time.

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 3rd, 01, 07:04 AM
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The 85 Berlinetta should be the right one. It could have come with rear discs or drums so you'll need to check that out. If you are getting it from a junkyard, they should be able to look up the Hollander exchange for you.

I can't remember now why, but I ended up ruling out using a 4th gen setup. I haven't gotten into the entire swap yet, but I think one problem with using the late model master is the possibility of the outlet ports being metric. If they are, I'll either try re-tapping or finding some adapter fittings. I'm not too concerned about it.
Hope this helps some.

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Bret Copsey
'68 Camaro base coupe
'92 Caprice wagon
'98 Malibu
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 3rd, 01, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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I would be getting it from a guy parting a car out, not a yard. If the booster will work then Im not real concerned with the master because I have a g-body master that I could use but I also have a cadilac rear disc setup that I would use if I happen across a 4 wheel disc master and combination valve setup. If not then I will just use the rear drums. I havent decided if it is worth the extra trouble for the rear discs, but since I have them I will use them if I can. This guy is giving me the booster/master and combi valve for $25, so I will use whatever rears that it is setup for.

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[This message has been edited by MrKwik (edited 12-03-2001).]
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 3rd, 01, 07:21 AM
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Good luck! $25 is a good price, can't go wrong there! I think I paid around $75 for mine.

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Bret Copsey
'68 Camaro base coupe
'92 Caprice wagon
'98 Malibu
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 01, 04:01 AM
BC
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MrKwik,
Nice Nova!
Non-power front disks were installed on quite a few cars, so you have several choices if you want to go that way. Nova's, Camaros, Chevelles etc all could have had manual disks, so just ask for a manual disk/drum master cylinder at the parts store. Should be under $25.
if you want to go power, then it depends how much work you want to go. If you want to use the rear disks, then the setup from the '01 Camaro SS should be 4-wheel disk. Bret is right that the later cars used an eyelet that slid over a post welded to the brake pedal. If you want to use the stock setup, then you can cut off the eyelet and thread the rod like bret said. That will also allow you to adjust it if needed. Any of the boosters after 81 will have the mounting studs welded on them, but you can grind off the welds and tap them out. Then you will need to re-drill the holes in the mounting flange to the correct pattern to fit your car. Be careful to get the booster centered over the hole!
Also, if you go with the 4-wheel disks, you can get a master cylinder from a 79-81 TA that had 4-wheel disks, or a 70's Corvette one.

Does your car make sufficient vacuum to properly operate a vacuum booster? I can tell you that my big block is pretty mild, but only puts out 11" of vacuum, so it will not give me correct boost and I'm now converting to manual 4-wheel disks. I tried the smaller booster out of an 80 Camaro, but it ended up being harder to push and not work as well as a single diaphram, larger booster.

Good luck,
Bill C.


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Bill C.
Colorado Springs, CO

68 Camaro... someday!
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 01, 04:17 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks. I was under the impression that some novas and chevelles were available non power as well and the first thing I did was try to get a new master from the parts store. Everythinng disc brake that they list is power only, which is why I have pretty much decided to go the power route. I am pretty sure that the cam I am using now is way too hairy for power brakes, but I will be installing a different cam before the motor goes back in. I am going with a crane powermax. The cam is a little bigger than what I wanted to use but the crane tech guy said I have too much compression for a smaller cam and would run into detonation issues. It actually has more lift than the one I have now but less duration. He said this cam will be on the borderline for power brakes. I guess I could use a vacuum canister if I need to. I have a master cyl that came off of an S-10 with non power discs, but it has the shallow hole in the end like a power master, so I dont know how I would rig that up. I think I will get this Berlinetta booster tonight and build a new bracket or whatever I need to do and If I cant get it to work that I will go back to square one.

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 01, 12:05 PM
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You need to find another parts store, one where they still have BOOKS to look in! I done a lot of checking on these, so if you nee a part number, give me a hollar. You might also check out www.carparts.com to get part numbers to take to the local store, it's a pretty good site. I just recently bought a manual disk/drum master cylinder for a 73 Malibu because it has a 15/16" bore, so pedal pressure should be less than a 1" bore. It's for my Nova, so it should work good.
I will caution you against the canister, they don't work too good IMO. I tried one and it only helped about half of the first stab of the brakes, then all vacuum is gone and you are back to rock-hard pedal with not much braking. One thing to consider is that while the manual brakes will require more effort, they are much less effort than a power system that has no power assist!

Good luck,
Bill C.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 01, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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I was dealing with NAPA. I basically fed them a list of the cars and years that I thought would work and none of them came up with non power disc. I will try the 73 Malibu though, you dont have the part number do you? I can live with non power, that was my first choice anyway. I didn't really want to use a canister because thats just one more thing in the engine bay. Is it safe to assume that the combination valve for a power or non power setup is the same? I have 2 right now. One from the 71 monte that the front discs came off of and I have one from a 82-83 cutlass. They both look the same, but is there any reason that I should use one or the other?

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 01, 02:57 PM
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I'm running manual disc/drum on my 68. I'm using a master cylinder from a 67 camaro, which came with manual disc brakes. I would think combination valves on a manual disc car would be the same as a power disc car.

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 01, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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are you happy with the manual setup? Does it take a higher effort than the 4 wheel drum setup? Did you use the valve off of the 67 as well, or an aftermarket valve?

Thanks


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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 5th, 01, 05:49 AM Thread Starter
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Good news. I called O'rielly and found a master cyl for the 67 Camaro with non power disc brakes for $20! I just hope the combination valve I have will do the trick. Thanks for the help everybody.

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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 5th, 01, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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UPDATE-
I went to O'reilly over lunch to fetch the master cyl. It looked exactly like the one that I had so I made him pull out the book and verify that it was a manual disc master. Aparently he goofed and looked up a 4 wheel drum master and did not show a master for manual disc on a 67 camaro. A little more digging turned up a manual disc application for a 67 Chevelle. He had it on the shelf and the final cost was $12.19!

Just in case anybody needs the number it is a
Cardone #10-1511

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old Dec 5th, 01, 01:31 PM
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I'm very happy with the manual set up. I plan on upgrading this winter to 4 wdb with 13" and 12" rotors. I like manual over power, better feel for lock-up. That's just my opinion.
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