vent-stupid subframe connectors - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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ok guys,
i've got a few questions about things that just dont make sense.
first, i recived my subframe connectors (competition engineering) "bolt-on" and well, they hit the floor pans, does that make any sense to make "bolt on" connectors that smack into your floor pans? and second, i must have had a misconception of the bolt on idea, so generally if you bolt it on, its easy. i must have been mistaken, i didnt realize that for connectors bolt on means pull the rear leaf springs off! what the heck, i mean its one damn thing after the next with these companies, do they use actual cars when they design these things, or do they pull plans out of the air (or somewhere else!)?
the whole suspension deal is starting to get to me, i mean first its the front coils which arent marked "up" or "down" on the coil, but if you flip em it makes a 1" difference in the right height side to side. then its the "direct replacement" 3 leaf springs, that are too wide and too thick (which is apparent, but they arent direct bolt in, if you gotta buy longer bolts are they now?)
now, i finally plunk down $100 for a part that has about $5 worth of material in it and $10 worth of work into it, if that, and IT DONT FIT!
do i gotta put $1,000 into everything to make it right, and cut weld and fabricate everything? or is there actually parts that fit anywhere?
at least when i switch to coil over/ladderbar/wishbone i know its going to need an S load of work, but its much easier when i already anticipated it (better frame of mind when i get the peice)
wew, thanks for letting me vent guys, this S gets to me, but i always love the results.
share some of your stories guys, it makes me feel a little better when the rest of you's are having a little trouble too (j/k)

[This message has been edited by CamaroNOTcamero (edited 11-14-2001).]
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 02:56 PM
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I know the feeling well. Your not alone in being frustrated by misleading claims. It does get irritating. I've had an older pair of connecters never used before and I still have the instruction sheet that came with them. 2 sentences didn't sit well with me.
1: You have to use a special rear body bushing, and once you slide the bar in the frame, beat it with a hammer to close the gap.
2: After the front of connecter is in frame, jack up rear of connecter until flush with rear spring shackle, the floor under the rear seat will bow up slightly.
SLIGHTLY. I held them up there. It will be about 2" up in the floor. They're laying in the "things that have to modified to work" pile.

I'm going thru the "can of worms" syndrome right now. Everything I pull from the car I'm working on now is just about shot. I thought alot more of it would be usable, but naturally, that's not the case.
I don't know what I'm thinking, I've done this before. The only thing that's going to be reusable is the body & the damm wiring. LOL Don't ya just love it!!

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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yeah, this claims really get to me. the only crap i get that fits is the stuff that comes from the factory and the stuff you gotta weld up to use!
makes you wonder does it!
if i start a business making parts that actually fit camaros i'd be rich! i think i justr gave myself an idea
good luck with the car stevo, and guys keep the stories rollin' i'm feeling better already.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 03:59 PM
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CamaroNOTcamero,

Thay's why I visit here and read every post that I can lay my eyes on. I wouldn't have started working on my car after 15 or so years of being parked in the garage if it wasn't for everybody here!!!

About the S/F/C's, Cornholio told us to use a floorjack as a third hand to push the suckers up into the floorboard b/c thats the way they fit. I did and got very little floorboard bowing! I didn't know what I was going ta do!!!

Many people have bitched about having to cut the front leaf spring eye mounting brackets bolts off after the P.O.S. stock "clip-nuts" break due to rust b/c the bolt-on S/F/C's go between the mount and the unibody rear frame.

As for front springs, they are generally a PITA. to R&R b/c of having a heck of a time locating the spring pig-tails in the spring pockets, both as uncut and cut to lower to wanted ride height.

I agonized over the fact that my springs sheet said that the springs wouldn't look like stock on the ends but were alright to use as they were made? Yea, sure, but they fit fine after I had to put one in twice b/c I didn't get it located right. Heck, I still gotta pull them and trim to my ride height after I get my 496 installed.

Please just vent away here b/c a whole bunch of us guy's have felt the same frustrations half way through our saturday afternoon project that takes three weekends.

Been there, done that.

I have physically screamed and cried, (you know, the old three year old kid fit), b/c I was sooo frustrated I couldn't see straight b/c I needed a little help and had to do something BY MY SELF!!

Don't feel bad at all. Moral support is a key-stroke away. pdq67




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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 05:04 PM
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Yea, ya know those little cry dolls at the car shows. At least that's what I call them. The ones that have their head on their arm with their head down. That's been me for 2 days. LOL
Pull the trans, Booo Hooo, pull the brakes Booo Hooo, open up the motor, Booo Hooo snivle snivle. Wahhh! LOMAO


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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 06:05 PM
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Anything like that, I look at as a "kit".
Some basic parts that with some effort can be "made to work".
There are lots of ways to go wrong, aren't there?
David

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 06:24 PM
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you don't have to completely drop the rear springs, just unbolt the front perches, the connectors slide right under there. How badly do they hit the floor? Mine didn't. Are your subframe bushings shorter than stock or worn out?
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 01, 07:03 AM
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Boodlepoof asks a good question. When I replaced my rotted bushings with new ones ( aluminum from Global West ), the body raised up a solid 1/2 " or so.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 01, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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i figured i wasnt the only one you guys are great, its good to vent! this stuff is so frustrating, but only when it seems easy when your looking at doing it, when it looks hard i get it done easy
boodle i tried that, but i think i have to undo the rear end perches too, to get it to drop down far enough.
instead of pushing up the floorboards i'm going to cut a peice out of the connectors and weld a new peice in.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 01, 10:33 AM
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if you disconnect the driveshaft from the rear and unbolt the bottom perch of the shocks, you can probably get it down far enough without taking apart the shackles.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 01, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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thats a good idea, thanks i'll try it out over the weekend.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 01, 11:36 PM
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You shouldnt have to unbolt too much of anything...on my nova (with the CE SFC's) I took out the big bolt that runs thru the front spring eye bushing (tire removed and car supported in the rear with jack stands), wedged a short piece of 4x4 between the frame and the spring as far forward as I could without getting in the way, removed the front spring bracket (3 bolts), loosened the rear most front subframe body bolt enough to drop the lower bushing about 3/8" with another jack on a body brace about even with the same bushing (so everything would spread apart), slid the SFC into the front subframe (had to pursuade it with a hammer just a bit), lined up the rear holes, slid the spring bracket over the front eye bushings, and everything pretty much fell into place. Now, I did have to grind on the SFC right where the bolt head (the big one thru the spring bushing) was hitting the SFC and wouldnt let everything go into place (there was less than 1/8" clearance between the spring bracket and the SFC right there). It was definately more work than I expected. The biggest problem for me was that I also replaced the spring eye bushing (doing the shackles in the am) and it took over 2 hours apiece to get them damn bolts and the old bushing shells out. The rubber bushing had fused itself to the outside of the bolt sleeve, and the bolt had rusted itself to the inside of the sleeve.

Its late and I am tired...I hope this made sense

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 01, 01:53 AM
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I installed "bolt in" Comp sub frame connectors. It was easier to remove the front spring mounting bolt and pry the spring down, sticking a 2X4 in to hold it. I removed the spring mounting bracket, put the connector in the front frame, gently used a floor jack (no noticable bow inside) slide the back of the connector over and put the mounting plate back in. The I realized I had to put the mounting bolt back into the spring and mount before removing the 2X4. I have to admit the floor jack idea was from doing a search before starting the project. Worked good.
Bill P

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 01, 06:17 AM
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I've just recently removed my frame connectors but.... I don't remember it being that horrible of a task to install!

1. remove the three bolt at the front of the spring perch
2. Using a large pry bar, pry the front down and place a small block of wood to hold it down
3. Remove the rear body bolt and insert the frame connector release the wood block and you should be there...

Remember that these cars are unibodies and have a tendancy to twist if it's been driven hard prior to installing the connectors. Other than that it shouldn't take that much effort

If you find that it slightly twisted... Place a floor jack under the right side and raise it a little to compensate for the twist

Good luck

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 01, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for the ideas guys, the wood block should work nice, i'm usually pretty angry when these "bolt-on" things dont fit right, some i'm not thinking right when i'm working on it. i'll pick it up tomorrow and try a few things.
thanks guys.
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